I want to ride my bicycle! I want to ride my bike!

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Mo
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Re: I want to ride my bicycle! I want to ride my bike!

Post by Mo »

nicole wrote:I actually don't park on the street at home, and haven't in several years. However, I think I could make a reasonable argument that in fact, on a street like mine, the value of parking is higher than the value of driving. If I had to ballpark it, I'd say something like half of the people living in this neighborhood (and similar ones) park on the street, and frequently move their car only once a week or so. The other half do bear the costs of parking, either bundled with the cost of an apartment (like mine, which has "free" parking included in the alley) or additionally (which runs, in my neighborhood, which is pretty cheap, around $150/month). There's not much point in driving on a lot of these streets except to find a parking space, or if you have really unusual preferences about going places without making unnecessarily left turns or something only an OCD person would do.
Parking creepers are more annoying and dangerous than bicyclists. They slam on their brakes unexpectedly, drive at widely variable speeds and then block the fuck out of traffic while they wait for the person who is texting their buddy before they pull out of the spot.
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lunchstealer
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Re: I want to ride my bicycle! I want to ride my bike!

Post by lunchstealer »

nicole wrote:
lunchstealer wrote:
nicole wrote:
Mo wrote:Should we ban tourists from the sidewalks of NYC? They go 3 when everyone else is going 5 and they stop short all the time.

It's not like bikes are on interstates, they're on streets where the speed limit is 25-35 miles an hour. The thing is cars will slow down significantly for a car going 25 on a 25 road as well.
Is that supposed to be funny? Maybe people don't realize this is why some of us are libertarians; slow side-walkers would be first against the wall. Imma have to walk to work down 8th Ave in Midtown this week and if being pointedly, retardedly in the way isn't aggression I don't know what is. Get out of everyone's way as fast as you can. That's the only thing holding society together. Why on earth it would be a personality flaw to be impatient but not to actively fuck with people is beyond me.

And bikes are just like buses, delivery vans, etc. Another pain in the ass that slows down traffic as everyone passes them. But we're supposed to act like they're something other than that because environment.
No, you're not supposed to act like they're not pains in the asses, you're supposed to accept that sometimes you're a pain in someone else's ass, and sometimes someone's a pain in your ass, and grow the fuck up and deal with the fact that they're there, have every right to be there, they're not doing it to inconvenience you, and you can just grow some goddamned patience.
Yeah. But some people spent time and effort trying not to be in other people's way. And some people don't.
But this is true of cyclists and motorists as much as pedestrians.
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nicole
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Re: I want to ride my bicycle! I want to ride my bike!

Post by nicole »

Is my hate not allowed to be distributed evenly?
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nicole
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Re: I want to ride my bicycle! I want to ride my bike!

Post by nicole »

Mo wrote:
nicole wrote:I actually don't park on the street at home, and haven't in several years. However, I think I could make a reasonable argument that in fact, on a street like mine, the value of parking is higher than the value of driving. If I had to ballpark it, I'd say something like half of the people living in this neighborhood (and similar ones) park on the street, and frequently move their car only once a week or so. The other half do bear the costs of parking, either bundled with the cost of an apartment (like mine, which has "free" parking included in the alley) or additionally (which runs, in my neighborhood, which is pretty cheap, around $150/month). There's not much point in driving on a lot of these streets except to find a parking space, or if you have really unusual preferences about going places without making unnecessarily left turns or something only an OCD person would do.
Parking creepers are more annoying and dangerous than bicyclists. They slam on their brakes unexpectedly, drive at widely variable speeds and then block the fuck out of traffic while they wait for the person who is texting their buddy before they pull out of the spot.
Oh yes, oh yes they are. The only thing more annoying than a parking creeper is the guy who doesn't realize his own car is narrow enough to pass the parking creeper.
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Jadagul
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Re: I want to ride my bicycle! I want to ride my bike!

Post by Jadagul »

nicole wrote:Is my hate not allowed to be distributed evenly?
I think people are (mis?)interpreting you as saying "and this is why I agree with A_R and bicycles should never ride in streets," rather than "And sometimes I get really annoyed about this."
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Mo
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Re: I want to ride my bicycle! I want to ride my bike!

Post by Mo »

nicole wrote:
Mo wrote:
nicole wrote:I actually don't park on the street at home, and haven't in several years. However, I think I could make a reasonable argument that in fact, on a street like mine, the value of parking is higher than the value of driving. If I had to ballpark it, I'd say something like half of the people living in this neighborhood (and similar ones) park on the street, and frequently move their car only once a week or so. The other half do bear the costs of parking, either bundled with the cost of an apartment (like mine, which has "free" parking included in the alley) or additionally (which runs, in my neighborhood, which is pretty cheap, around $150/month). There's not much point in driving on a lot of these streets except to find a parking space, or if you have really unusual preferences about going places without making unnecessarily left turns or something only an OCD person would do.
Parking creepers are more annoying and dangerous than bicyclists. They slam on their brakes unexpectedly, drive at widely variable speeds and then block the fuck out of traffic while they wait for the person who is texting their buddy before they pull out of the spot.
Oh yes, oh yes they are. The only thing more annoying than a parking creeper is the guy who doesn't realize his own car is narrow enough to pass the parking creeper.
False, the guy who doesn't realize his car is too long for the parking spot and just thinks his crappy parallel parking skills are the reason he can't get in and make 5 attempts to squeeze in.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Re: I want to ride my bicycle! I want to ride my bike!

Post by lunchstealer »

nicole wrote:Is my hate not allowed to be distributed evenly?
It will approach even spread in a closed system, but in an open system, you will almost invariably have an uneven distribution of hate.
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nicole
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Re: I want to ride my bicycle! I want to ride my bike!

Post by nicole »

So, a cyclist hit a woman in a crosswalk in Central Park, leaving her brain-damaged. From the, yes, somewhat crackpot NYPost story:
Law enforcement sources said it’s common for athletic cyclists to pedal in the car lanes, enabling them to travel faster.

“These guys think that they have entitlement and they don’t ride in the bike lanes,” one source said.

Witness Phillip Fenton, 21, visiting New York on a geography field trip from England’s University of Exeter, said Marshall was “speeding,” adding, “It didn’t look like he tried to stop.

“He was yelling for her to get out of the way, but I don’t think she heard him,” Fenton added.

Fenton’s pal Tom Longman said Marshall was hunched over the brakeless, triathlon-style “aerobars” attached to the handlebars of his high-performance, yellow and black ride.
Now, I want to be 100% clear that I do not condone this guy running a woman down on his bike and that I fully recognize how dangerous "athletic cyclists" (we call them the Spandex People) can be to pedestrians, other cyclists, and cars. Truly, I do, because I have almost been in this woman's position a bunch of times. We have a LOT of guys like this where I run. L-dub's take on them tends to be, "Yeah, if you want to ride your bike like that you have to go out on the path at 5am, period." Sure. I agree. I go out early too, because later on the path is full of walkers and other slow people and just more crowded generally, etc. etc.

But something strikes me as...I don't know, off/interesting/something about this situation. Notably, there apparently is a bike lane in this location, but this cyclist wasn't using it--he was riding in the car lane. That hardly seems like a best practice to me, but at what point are we saying to people, "Oh, you like to ride your bike? Cool, let's build out some infrastructure for that, let's build bike lanes. Oh, now that we have bike lanes, they're full of morons you don't want to ride with because they can barely ride? Shit, well, I guess you're just gonna have to either ride like that or not at all, and accept that you once again cannot safely ride your bike in this area."

Even L-dub, as a semi-serious cyclist, has very little sympathy for this crowd. Maybe it's just some kind of totally generalized elitism in me, but I feel like if I were one of them, and I finally got some "support" for my "passion" or whatever, I'd be super pissed that all my shit was now cluttered up with people on those awful divvy/citi/etc bikes who can barely ride to begin with and certainly not on such a heavy bike. I don't have any proposed "solution" to this or anything like that, and again it seems like it was almost definitely the cyclist's fault that this woman was horribly injured, but I still felt bad for him somehow. The police source comment certainly rubbed me the wrong way -- it is "entitled" to want to ride your bike at the right speed? Ugh. That seems...dickish.

Of course, there's no indication of what speed he may have actually been going, or what the speed limit at the location was, so again, it becomes hard to say exactly what I think about it all. But the scare quotes about these "aerobars" which are "brakeless" (sort of...) I mean, it's just like, I don't know, seems totally anti-serious-cyclist in what strikes me as...dopey? offensive? I don't even know. I don't even like these people, I have to watch out for them ALL THE TIME, but I guess because they're clearly good at what they do I end up liking them better than the people doing the equivalent of driving like zombie idiots.

And this is why I'm a jerktarian.
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Jadagul
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Re: I want to ride my bicycle! I want to ride my bike!

Post by Jadagul »

Comments:

(1) Cycling is hard because there's no consensus on what the rules are supposed to be. Cyclists are used to dealing with somewhat hostile infrastructure and being hostile back at it; this is bad all around.

(2) When a car hits a pedestrian and causes brain damage, it usually doesn't become national news.
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nicole
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Re: I want to ride my bicycle! I want to ride my bike!

Post by nicole »

Yeah, L-dub and I talked a lot about (1) this morning.
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Re: I want to ride my bicycle! I want to ride my bike!

Post by Highway »

It's all irrelevant. The cyclist was on the road on a vehicle, where he was fine with being. That there's a bike lane doesn't matter. But this is the important part:

VEHICLES MUST YIELD RIGHT OF WAY TO PEDESTRIANS IN CROSSWALKS.

There is no if, and, or but about it. I don't care if Fuckhead the Cyclist thought he was going the speed he wanted. It doesn't matter two shits if he yelled at her to get out of his way. He is 100% in the wrong, he hit a pedestrian in a crosswalk, and should be prosecuted and sued for her wrongful death if that's what it's ruled. He was clearly not in control of his vehicle if he couldn't stop or avoid her.

There's no 'entitlement' anywhere around here. There's no 'proper' speed. He could not avoid a hazard that he, by law, was required to yield to. That is recklessness no matter what vehicle you're driving.
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Re: I want to ride my bicycle! I want to ride my bike!

Post by Highway »

Jadagul's (2) is because a) it's rather unexpected that a cyclist would injure a pedestrian so badly and b) because some asshats will defend this cyclist, where noone would defend an automobile driver who mows down a pedestrian in a crosswalk.
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Re: I want to ride my bicycle! I want to ride my bike!

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

Jadagul wrote:Comments:
When a car hits a pedestrian and causes brain damage, it usually doesn't become national news.
Possibly because the change is too subtle.
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Re: I want to ride my bicycle! I want to ride my bike!

Post by Jadagul »

Highway wrote:Jadagul's (2) is because a) it's rather unexpected that a cyclist would injure a pedestrian so badly and b) because some asshats will defend this cyclist, where noone would defend an automobile driver who mows down a pedestrian in a crosswalk.
No one defends them, but it's also not surprising and no one uses it to suggest that cars are inherently evil or that we should completely rewrite the rulebook to make sure that never happens.

Which you of course aren't doing. You're rightly pointing out that there are already rules against "Wantonly attacking a pedestrian with you vehicle" and the dude shouldn't do that. And should be prosecuted for it. Which is, of course, correct.
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Re: I want to ride my bicycle! I want to ride my bike!

Post by Kolohe »

What highway said. If anything, not being in the bike lane *should* have helped him avoid the collision (if he wasn't going to slow or stop, which he should have). Often enough, the bike lane is right up against the curb, leading to no warning time if a pedestrian suddenly changes direction in an orthogonal move to cross the street. At least by being in the lane, you should be able to pass your bike at least a few steps in front of any just-starting-to-cross pedestrian, or alternatively, pass behind them if they're already closer to the middle of the street.
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Re: I want to ride my bicycle! I want to ride my bike!

Post by Kolohe »

nicole wrote:and that I fully recognize how dangerous "athletic cyclists" (we call them the Spandex People)
The phrase around the local bike forums here is MAMILs (middle-aged men in lycra). And I totes agree with everything else you wrote.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex
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Re: I want to ride my bicycle! I want to ride my bike!

Post by Kolohe »

Marshall, an accomplished baritone saxophone player, was pedaling a pricey Jamis Eclipse racing bike when he spotted the woman in the crosswalk at an intersection controlled by a traffic light, sources said.

It was unclear who had the light, but Marshall — who remained at the scene — “admits to being in the wrong lane,” the source added
whoa whoa whoa whoa

If he had a green light and she had a red (steady) hand, that makes a huge ass difference.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex
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Highway
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Re: I want to ride my bicycle! I want to ride my bike!

Post by Highway »

The fact that he was in the roadway lane, rather than the bike lane, works against the cyclist in my mind. Not only did he have more maneuvering room to get around her, there is no question that she was well established in the crosswalk, not that she just stepped out from the curb in front of him.

A bit of disclosure: My bike accident in college, first year, I hit a pedestrian who was *not* in a crosswalk. The pedestrian didn't get knocked down, I lost my balance after a glancing blow and hit the curb, falling and landing on my shoulder and dislocating it. Accidents happen. I paid the consequences of a dislocated shoulder for years (until I dislocated it again, actually). But the results determine the reaction.
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Re: I want to ride my bicycle! I want to ride my bike!

Post by Kolohe »

If you're walking *against* the green, you don't have 'crosswalk rights'.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex
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Re: I want to ride my bicycle! I want to ride my bike!

Post by Taktix® »

One part I just don't understand: why no brakes? I get that hardcore cyclists would want as little weight as possible, but however little gain is added by removing the brakes cannot possibly offset the ability to stop...

Edit: for cutting and pasting my way to illegibility!
Last edited by Taktix® on 19 Sep 2014, 13:59, edited 1 time in total.
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nicole
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Re: I want to ride my bicycle! I want to ride my bike!

Post by nicole »

He does have brakes. It's a terrible description. He has "extra" handlebars attached to the real ones, and he was leaning on the bars without brakes. The ones just below where his hands were almost certainly had the normal brakes. These dudes aren't riding fixies.
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Mo
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Re: I want to ride my bicycle! I want to ride my bike!

Post by Mo »

Kolohe wrote:If you're walking *against* the green, you don't have 'crosswalk rights'.
Pedestrian always has right of way. And apparently, this dude had enough time to recognize that he was going to hit her and yell at her to get out of the way. Also, seems negligent to be using the brakeless part of the handlebars in urban riding, when you may need to stop for any reason. I may be super comfy driving cross-legged*, but it's negligent as hell to kill my reaction time that much.

* I am not
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Kolohe
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Re: I want to ride my bicycle! I want to ride my bike!

Post by Kolohe »

Mo wrote:
Kolohe wrote:If you're walking *against* the green, you don't have 'crosswalk rights'.
Pedestrian always has right of way.

No
S 1150. Pedestrians subject to traffic regulations. Pedestrians shall
be subject to traffic-control signals as provided in section eleven
hundred eleven of this title, but at all other places pedestrians shall
be accorded the privileges and shall be subject to the restrictions
stated in this article.

S 1151. Pedestrians` right of way in crosswalks. (a) When
traffic-control signals are not in place or not in operation the driver
of a vehicle shall yield the right of way, slowing down or stopping if
need be to so yield, to a pedestrian crossing the roadway within a
crosswalk on the roadway upon which the vehicle is traveling, except
that any pedestrian crossing a roadway at a point where a pedestrian
tunnel or overpass has been provided shall yield the right of way to all
vehicles.
I do agree that everyone has an affirmative duty to avoid collisions in any case (sailors call this Rule 2, the 'General Prudential Rule'), and there is evidence (in the form of the statement made by a named witness) that the cyclist did not take maximum feasible steps to avoid the collision.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex
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Highway
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Re: I want to ride my bicycle! I want to ride my bike!

Post by Highway »

Plus, the status of the light is no matter now, because there's no way to make 'certain' what it was. If the cyclist isn't loudly affirming that he had a green light, then 5 gets you 10 that he didn't. Plus, even if he had a green light, he was not in control of his vehicle, such that he could avoid an accident with a pedestrian that was not a sudden hazard. If he was in a situation where the light had turned red, could he have stopped? If so, why didn't he stop to avoid a pedestrian that was not a sudden hazard? If he could not have stopped, what was he planning to do if the light was red?

Additionally, it doesn't matter much because NY rarely charges anyone with a crime for even fatal accidents (although high profile case here may make a difference). But there will certainly be a civil case, and the 'failure to control his vehicle' will probably be the main point.
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Jadagul
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Re: I want to ride my bicycle! I want to ride my bike!

Post by Jadagul »

Kolohe wrote:
Mo wrote:
Kolohe wrote:If you're walking *against* the green, you don't have 'crosswalk rights'.
Pedestrian always has right of way.

No
S 1150. Pedestrians subject to traffic regulations. Pedestrians shall
be subject to traffic-control signals as provided in section eleven
hundred eleven of this title, but at all other places pedestrians shall
be accorded the privileges and shall be subject to the restrictions
stated in this article.

S 1151. Pedestrians` right of way in crosswalks. (a) When
traffic-control signals are not in place or not in operation the driver
of a vehicle shall yield the right of way, slowing down or stopping if
need be to so yield, to a pedestrian crossing the roadway within a
crosswalk on the roadway upon which the vehicle is traveling, except
that any pedestrian crossing a roadway at a point where a pedestrian
tunnel or overpass has been provided shall yield the right of way to all
vehicles.
I do agree that everyone has an affirmative duty to avoid collisions in any case (sailors call this Rule 2, the 'General Prudential Rule'), and there is evidence (in the form of the statement made by a named witness) that the cyclist did not take maximum feasible steps to avoid the collision.
Varies from state to state. In California pedestrian always has right of way, which is probably why Mo said that. Looks like NY handles it differently.
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