Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

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Aresen
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

Post by Aresen »

Kolohe wrote: 20 Jul 2020, 23:36
Mo wrote: 20 Jul 2020, 14:33 This is a question for DAR, were Democrats similarly pissy and dismissive of Reagan Democrats or did they try to actually win them over? Though I guess primarying Carter kinda answers that question.
I thought Clinton - Southern, DLC - was the explicitly a plan to regain some Regan Democrats.
D.A. Ridgely wrote: 20 Jul 2020, 23:50

The DLC, for sure. Not sure how that relates to Carter, though. I mean, he didn't lose a second term because he was perceived as too liberal; he was perceived as ineffective. I don't think his own party was any more than lukewarm about his second campaign (maybe they were suffering malaise) and I suspect most of the Dems who voted for Reagan did so, more than any other reason, because of the Iran Hostage Crisis. If you mean the 84 race, I don't think the Mondale/Ferraro thought it had any chance of swaying the centerist Dems who voted for Reagan against Carter back into the fold. Clinton, otoh, absolutely. The DLC was all about moving to the center.
I don't recall it so much for Reagan Democrats, but there were many 'Nixoncrats' in 1972, partly because of McGovern's incompetent campaign, but also Nixon went strongly for the blue collar vote. (As well as portraying opponents to his and Kissinger's Vietnam/Laos/Cambodia strategy as anti-American.) The Democrat establishment hated them with a passion.
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

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Weren’t they also the first wave of Dixiecrats to become Republicans?
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

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More than anything else the fact that the Republicans look set to nominate Judy Shelton to the Fed in the midst of an economic crisis shows how irredeemable the party is. Just fucking burn the whole party to the ground.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

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Mo wrote: 21 Jul 2020, 04:00 More than anything else the fact that the Republicans look set to nominate Judy Shelton to the Fed in the midst of an economic crisis shows how irredeemable the party is. Just fucking burn the whole party to the ground.
Preferably with Mitch McConnell, Ted Cruz, and several others locked inside the building.
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

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Number 6 wrote: 20 Jul 2020, 19:33 That's really too bad. Is there any publication that approximates a principled, thinking conservative conversation? Is there a principled, thinking conservative left anywhere?
A few, but gawd are the a beleaguered bunch, and most are homeless. NR and WSJ are still the most principled, thinking conservative places that I can find, and still occasionally manage to oppose Trump with a braincell or two, but yeah it's tough out there for a ho.
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

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Aresen wrote: 21 Jul 2020, 14:22
Mo wrote: 21 Jul 2020, 04:00 More than anything else the fact that the Republicans look set to nominate Judy Shelton to the Fed in the midst of an economic crisis shows how irredeemable the party is. Just fucking burn the whole party to the ground.
Preferably with Mitch McConnell, Ted Cruz, and several others locked inside the building.
Be honest with you it's probably more helpful to list the Rs you want to let out before you strike the match.
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

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lunchstealer wrote: 21 Jul 2020, 17:42
Aresen wrote: 21 Jul 2020, 14:22
Mo wrote: 21 Jul 2020, 04:00 More than anything else the fact that the Republicans look set to nominate Judy Shelton to the Fed in the midst of an economic crisis shows how irredeemable the party is. Just fucking burn the whole party to the ground.
Preferably with Mitch McConnell, Ted Cruz, and several others locked inside the building.
Be honest with you it's probably more helpful to list the Rs you want to let out before you strike the match.
R. Paul would not be on the list.
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

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thoreau wrote: 21 Jul 2020, 17:59
lunchstealer wrote: 21 Jul 2020, 17:42
Aresen wrote: 21 Jul 2020, 14:22
Mo wrote: 21 Jul 2020, 04:00 More than anything else the fact that the Republicans look set to nominate Judy Shelton to the Fed in the midst of an economic crisis shows how irredeemable the party is. Just fucking burn the whole party to the ground.
Preferably with Mitch McConnell, Ted Cruz, and several others locked inside the building.
Be honest with you it's probably more helpful to list the Rs you want to let out before you strike the match.
R. Paul would not be on the list.
*checks*

Sorry, not on the list. Back of the line. No I know who your daddy is. He's not on the list either.
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

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Oh look, the deficit hawks have awoken from their 3.4 year hibernation.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opin ... ding-binge
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

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Mo wrote: 22 Jul 2020, 11:45 Oh look, the deficit hawks have awoken from their 3.4 year hibernation.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opin ... ding-binge
Ever since Willie, each POTUS seems determined to make the debt rise faster. Trump was outspending Obama even though the economy was booming.Zod knows what Coronavirus will do to the deficit this year.
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

Post by Mo »

lunchstealer wrote: 21 Jul 2020, 17:30
Number 6 wrote: 20 Jul 2020, 19:33 That's really too bad. Is there any publication that approximates a principled, thinking conservative conversation? Is there a principled, thinking conservative left anywhere?
A few, but gawd are the a beleaguered bunch, and most are homeless. NR and WSJ are still the most principled, thinking conservative places that I can find, and still occasionally manage to oppose Trump with a braincell or two, but yeah it's tough out there for a ho.
Yeah, I think it’s mostly independent places like The Bulwark or The Dispatch now. What’s funny is where they try to do the two step of writing things that are at best modestly critical of Trump on rare occasions, but when they’re called toadies, they’ll say that they’re mean to him all the time on their podcast. Which is convenient because podcasts are where you’re most able to hide from the octogenarians that are your donor base.
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

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I am onboard with whatever idiotic thing that makes Tom Cotton less likely to ever become president. I hope his career tops as a Pete Domenici type.
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

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It does feel like the next person will be Cottonesque. There isn't another competing narrative. Certainly not anything close to fusionism, or even fiscal hawkishness or anything. It's cultural. I think Trump needs to lose then the attempted Cottonarian needs also to lose, then maybe elephants will try to find something else.
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

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I think the next nominee could be Hawley/Cotton-esque, but I don’t think the winning coalition for that is there. For it to work, you need to convince minority working class folks to come over faster than you push away suburbanites. Short of something getting people amped up for a hot war with China or Iran, I can’t see that happening in 24. You need to replace the kicked out economically conservative stool leg with something else.
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

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Mo wrote: 27 Jul 2020, 11:07 I am onboard with whatever idiotic thing that makes Tom Cotton less likely to ever become president. I hope his career tops as a Pete Domenici type.
Just got up, wondered why anyone would bring up Tom Cotton- holy fucksocks he did not just say that.
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

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The generous reading of Cotton's comment is that the 'necessary evil' to which he referred is allowing slavery so that the southern colonies would get on board with the revolution. The question is why he thought this was a good time to drop this comment/bill. The answer is because he's a massive boner.
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

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The ironic thing is that he was saying it to discredit the 1619 project and basically just repeated what it said.

(Edited to delete a restatement of what Hugh said)
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

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Tom Cotton has persuaded me that it's time for Union troops to enter Arkansas with strict No Quarter rules of engagement.
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

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JasonL wrote: 27 Jul 2020, 11:11 It does feel like the next person will be Cottonesque. There isn't another competing narrative. Certainly not anything close to fusionism, or even fiscal hawkishness or anything. It's cultural. I think Trump needs to lose then the attempted Cottonarian needs also to lose, then maybe elephants will try to find something else.
This seems right. I don't see Team Red getting serious about policy anytime soon. But at some point the leadership has to realize that white terror is not a long-term winning strategy and that blacks and browns are actually pretty conservative about bread-and-butter social issues. I think the eventual fate of Team Red (and Team Blue for that matter) is to become a completely unserious social issues forever party.
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

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I don't know I see both sides moving away from the center. White terror will continue to be a short term winner as long as the opposition is BLM.
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

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Warren wrote: 27 Jul 2020, 13:30 I don't know I see both sides moving away from the center. White terror will continue to be a short term winner as long as the opposition is BLM.
The case for the Ds moving away from the center seems odd with Joe Biden as president and the current VP front runners being Kamala, Duckworth and Susan Rice instead of Elizabeth Warren. Even the Karen Bass boomlet is hardly a sign of a party going far left. And if the center right people that come for Trump stay in, the party’s center of gravity moves right, not left.
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

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Mo wrote: 27 Jul 2020, 14:19
Warren wrote: 27 Jul 2020, 13:30 I don't know I see both sides moving away from the center. White terror will continue to be a short term winner as long as the opposition is BLM.
The case for the Ds moving away from the center seems odd with Joe Biden as president and the current VP front runners being Kamala, Duckworth and Susan Rice instead of Elizabeth Warren. Even the Karen Bass boomlet is hardly a sign of a party going far left. And if the center right people that come for Trump stay in, the party’s center of gravity moves right, not left.
Yeah, it's certainly possible that Team Red will spin out of orbit and fly off into the dark unending night of extreme kulturkampf, but Team Blue had a number of normie-radical options this year and resoundingly told them to get their words straight, Jack.
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

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I bet Mitch McConnell is hoping for a sinkhole to swallow Cotton.
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

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I just Googled Tom cotton and literally Keanu'd.
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

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dhex wrote: 27 Jul 2020, 15:00 I just Googled Tom cotton and literally Keanu'd.
You have to clarify which kind you did.
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