Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

I'm counting on a civil war being averted, first, because most people will just continue to "Tsk Tsk" whichever side they dislike on TV and social media and go back to Netflix and Chill and because of the Left's aversion to and therefore lack of ownership of guns. You just can't get a real wild west show if everyone isn't packin' heat on the streets.
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

Post by thoreau »

I agree that a civil war won't happen. But there are levels of violence that fall well short of civil war yet nonetheless scare the public into terrible things.
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

thoreau wrote: 30 Aug 2020, 17:25 I agree that a civil war won't happen. But there are levels of violence that fall well short of civil war yet nonetheless scare the public into terrible things.
Sure. I know it's not exactly what you meant, but I'd say 9/11 was an excellent example of the general phenomenon.
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

Post by thoreau »

Agreed. And I am terrified that Kenosha might be the 9/11 that gets Trump reelected.

And since he makes a habit of pardoning cops and soldiers who cross lines, I'm terrified of what reelected Trump might do or allow to "restore order."
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

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Kenosha is too close to "normal violence" to come within an order of magnitude of 9/11. How many "long hot summer-esque events" have happened in my lifetime? How many in D.A. Ridgely's? Unless a suburb actually starts burning, it's just going to prompt more "wow, cities are shitholes, Someone should do Something" sentiment. And in that situation, capitalizing would require actually restoring order, which is not something Trump can manage. If he could, it would have happened in Portland.
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

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He can't restore order, but he can pardon a wnole bunch of crooked cops who undermine the rule of law.

Kenosha itself less of a 9/11 than a final straw. I was imprecise there. We've had many violent protests for months, and much police brutality. Now we're seeing vigilantes in the streets shooting alongside the cops. I worry that a line has been crossed.

And, again, I know that Trump can't actually restore order. But he can appeal to some of our worst instincts in a frightening time, and enable some terrible people.
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

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thoreau wrote: 30 Aug 2020, 18:53 He can't restore order, but he can pardon a wnole bunch of crooked cops who undermine the rule of law.
Which is actually a horrible idea if he's trying to avoid further alienating marginal voters. The people we're talking about are still reflexively pro-order, but they're not reflexively pro-police anymore. Cutting loose the jack-booted thugs who helped to escalate matters doesn't play well when your storyline is "I can restore order."
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

Post by thoreau »

Shem wrote: 30 Aug 2020, 19:44
thoreau wrote: 30 Aug 2020, 18:53 He can't restore order, but he can pardon a wnole bunch of crooked cops who undermine the rule of law.
Which is actually a horrible idea if he's trying to avoid further alienating marginal voters. The people we're talking about are still reflexively pro-order, but they're not reflexively pro-police anymore. Cutting loose the jack-booted thugs who helped to escalate matters doesn't play well when your storyline is "I can restore order."
I am not saying that you're wrong, but I'm far from convinced that you're right. He has kept an iron grip on 42% of the public, and if he scares a few percent more in just the right ways and just the right places he could pick up the states he needs. Maybe he won't scare them in the right ways, maybe you're right about their skepticism. God I hope you are. But I regard it as a hypothesis that we still need to test.

In 2016 I had lunch with a bunch of people who were all convinced that the fundamentals had shifted and the Democrats had a deep structural advantage against the Trumpified GOP. They were convinced that Clinton would not only win in 2016 but in 2020 as well. I thought they were right about 2016, but their 2020 predictions felt like hubris. Now I really want to believe that some fundamentals have shifted, that the Great Middle is no longer reflexively pro-cop, and that Tuff Guy Lawn Order no longer works. I want to believe that.

But if that belief is wrong? Then a few more well-publicized violent tragedies could be all that it takes to give us 4 more years of the Orange One.
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

Post by Shem »

thoreau wrote: 30 Aug 2020, 20:06
Shem wrote: 30 Aug 2020, 19:44
thoreau wrote: 30 Aug 2020, 18:53 He can't restore order, but he can pardon a wnole bunch of crooked cops who undermine the rule of law.
Which is actually a horrible idea if he's trying to avoid further alienating marginal voters. The people we're talking about are still reflexively pro-order, but they're not reflexively pro-police anymore. Cutting loose the jack-booted thugs who helped to escalate matters doesn't play well when your storyline is "I can restore order."
I am not saying that you're wrong, but I'm far from convinced that you're right. He has kept an iron grip on 42% of the public, and if he scares a few percent more in just the right ways and just the right places he could pick up the states he needs. Maybe he won't scare them in the right ways, maybe you're right about their skepticism. God I hope you are. But I regard it as a hypothesis that we still need to test.

In 2016 I had lunch with a bunch of people who were all convinced that the fundamentals had shifted and the Democrats had a deep structural advantage against the Trumpified GOP. They were convinced that Clinton would not only win in 2016 but in 2020 as well. I thought they were right about 2016, but their 2020 predictions felt like hubris. Now I really want to believe that some fundamentals have shifted, that the Great Middle is no longer reflexively pro-cop, and that Tuff Guy Lawn Order no longer works. I want to believe that.

But if that belief is wrong? Then a few more well-publicized violent tragedies could be all that it takes to give us 4 more years of the Orange One.
I still believe that one of the big mistakes we tend to make about the 2016 elections is that we view them as being something Trump won, rather than being something Clinton lost. The Dems let a couple years of popularity as the SecState distract them from the fact that Clinton was and is tremendously and personally unpopular among giant swaths of the electorate. The canary in the coal mine with this was Sanders; that they cleared any credible opponent and she still couldn't dust off the second coming of Dennis Kucinich should have been a giant, deafening warning klaxon in Democratic HQ. But they brushed it off, because they just saw it as "the left flank getting restive again," when really, the places he was successful (rural areas of the "Blue Wall") were not bastions of Democratic Socialism, no matter what the Sanders campaign thought. They just hated Clinton that much. Compare that to now, when part of why Biden was able to put Sanders away so compellingly was the fact that he smashed Sanders in those same parts of Ohio, Michigan, and Pennsylvania. Are they going to go for Biden in the general? Probably not, but Trump also isn't going to be able to trade on Clinton hate to get them out to vote in the middle of a pandemic that 80% of the country is taking seriously, as polls continue to show. And since he's spent years *not* growing his coalition, he can't really afford to lose anyone. Because I promise, all those people on the left who were ambivalent about Clinton? They're outraged now.
Last edited by Shem on 30 Aug 2020, 20:50, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

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My rational mind knows that you're right and the odds are good.

But another part of me knows that so many things (no, not everything, as you point out) looked favorable for the Blues in 2016. And I keep having flashbacks to that lunch, where I said that Clinton wouldn't be re-elected in 2020 and everyone laughed at me. I said that there was no way the 2020 unemployment rate would be as low as the 2016 unemployment rate because the business cycle never stays that good for that long, and they said that the GOP simply could not win in a country as diverse as America has become.

Again, I know that your argument is very different from theirs, and I know that parts of my argument were not entirely correct. (e.g. In a different scenario maybe some butterfly effect would have kept COVID from happening, and who knows if the economy would still be humming along?) Still, I keep remembering that even I assumed the crazy man could not win, and everyone else assumed a Permanent Blue Majority, and we were so very, very wrong.

Honestly, what gives me the most hope is November 2018. We've seen what the electorate thinks of Team Red now. God I hope that lasts through November 2020.
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

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I certainly wouldn't say Biden has this sewn up. There are a hundred ways he could snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. But I would say it is something Biden needs to screw up, because whatever benefit Trump can derive from what he's doing right now, he has. And Trump doesn't have it in him to do anything different.
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

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Shem wrote: 30 Aug 2020, 20:56 I certainly wouldn't say Biden has this sewn up. There are a hundred ways he could snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. But I would say it is something Biden needs to screw up, because whatever benefit Trump can derive from what he's doing right now, he has. And Trump doesn't have it in him to do anything different.
I think this is the key. Trump is essentially gaffe-proof. We've lamented here often enough that no matter what Trump says or does, his fan base will cheer him on. Biden, OTOH, can say "If you vote for Trump, you ain't black" and get crucified for it. The election is Biden's to lose.
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

Post by thoreau »

Aresen wrote: 30 Aug 2020, 21:53
Shem wrote: 30 Aug 2020, 20:56 I certainly wouldn't say Biden has this sewn up. There are a hundred ways he could snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. But I would say it is something Biden needs to screw up, because whatever benefit Trump can derive from what he's doing right now, he has. And Trump doesn't have it in him to do anything different.
I think this is the key. Trump is essentially gaffe-proof. We've lamented here often enough that no matter what Trump says or does, his fan base will cheer him on. Biden, OTOH, can say "If you vote for Trump, you ain't black" and get crucified for it. The election is Biden's to lose.
Though Biden isn't Sanders, his staff should take their cues from Weekend at Bernie's.
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

Post by Eric the .5b »

Aresen wrote: 30 Aug 2020, 21:53
Shem wrote: 30 Aug 2020, 20:56 I certainly wouldn't say Biden has this sewn up. There are a hundred ways he could snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. But I would say it is something Biden needs to screw up, because whatever benefit Trump can derive from what he's doing right now, he has. And Trump doesn't have it in him to do anything different.
I think this is the key. Trump is essentially gaffe-proof. We've lamented here often enough that no matter what Trump says or does, his fan base will cheer him on. Biden, OTOH, can say "If you vote for Trump, you ain't black" and get crucified for it. The election is Biden's to lose.
Of course, Biden has only managed to get crucified among the people who weren't going to vote for anyone but Trump, even when he said more or less that. That could certainly change, but it'll require a bigger gaffe than he's managed so far, which is saying something.

Agreed, though. It's absolutely Biden's race to lose.
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

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Slip inside a sleeping bag.
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

Shem wrote: 30 Aug 2020, 18:40 Kenosha is too close to "normal violence" to come within an order of magnitude of 9/11. How many "long hot summer-esque events" have happened in my lifetime? How many in D.A. Ridgely's? Unless a suburb actually starts burning, it's just going to prompt more "wow, cities are shitholes, Someone should do Something" sentiment. And in that situation, capitalizing would require actually restoring order, which is not something Trump can manage. If he could, it would have happened in Portland.
Just in case someone doesn't already know, my hometown of Arlington, Virginia is separated from Washington, D.C. by the Potomac River. I was 16 in April, 1968 and, on reflection, my father and other adults were as palpably afraid during the D.C. Riots as they were during the Cuban Missile Crisis. I don't think my dad ever shot a firearm in his life, but I'm sure that gun sales skyrocketed and that there were people who'd already figured out how they might have to defend Arlington from the Virginia side of Key, 14th St. and Memorial Bridge. For that matter, I'd guess more than one Georgetown resident figured out his escape plan across Chain Bridge into Virginia.

But truth be told, life pretty much went on as usual in the D.C. suburbs as far as I can recollect for the four days of rioting in D.C. and the actual rioting, arson and looting was concentrated along 14th Street N.W., 7th Street N.W. and H Street N.E.., the core commercial strips of black Washington. There was no agenda; the riots were fueled by anger and, honestly, anarchy and opportunism. (Half of D.C.'s liquor stores were looted.)

And, yeah, that's as close to an actual riot I ever got. I was in or close to some of the anti-war demonstrations in D.C. but whatever confrontations occurred in any of them was small change by comparison.

So I'm inclined to agree with Shem here on his first point; the violence and destruction would have to hit the suburbs. I'm less sanguine about Trump's inability to restore order. That is to say, the entire BLM movement and the totality of the protests would be no more able to resist the serious use of military assets than the clowns who think they and their puny guns could actually overthrow an 'oppressive' U.S. government. Does Trump lack the courage to do such a thing or is he sufficiently reckless to respond with overwhelming force? Beats me, but sufficient assets sure as hell are there to be used if the public supported it.

Mind you, no matter how bad things get, we still aren't going to have civil war or a military coup. We're going to have an election in November, the results are going to be known and generally accepted, however grudgingly, long before January, and even if Trump wins again we're going to do it all again in 2024 and there will be a peaceful transition of government.
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

dbcooper wrote: 30 Aug 2020, 22:36
To put it mildly, I wouldn't call Luntz the most credible of pollsters.
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

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D.A. Ridgely wrote: 30 Aug 2020, 22:42 Just in case someone doesn't already know, my hometown of Arlington, Virginia is separated from Washington, D.C. by the Potomac River. I was 16 in April, 1968 and, on reflection, my father and other adults were as palpably afraid during the D.C. Riots as they were during the Cuban Missile Crisis. I don't think my dad ever shot a firearm in his life, but I'm sure that gun sales skyrocketed and that there were people who'd already figured out how they might have to defend Arlington from the Virginia side of Key, 14th St. and Memorial Bridge. For that matter, I'd guess more than one Georgetown resident figured out his escape plan across Chain Bridge into Virginia.
I'm curious; was that the first "major" set of riots you remember in that era? Reading about that period, it always kind of reminded me of how people my age reacted to school shootings. We had Columbine, which was the one that made them a "thing" for us, and that one hit like a natural disaster. Everyone was twitchy for weeks after the fact, expecting one of the class weirdos to go copycat. By the time we made it to number 4 or 5, though, it was just kind of a thing that we heard about from somewhere, like a California earthquake. I kind of feel like rioting is similar; shocking at one point, but now it's just kind of something that happens in cities sometimes.
I'm less sanguine about Trump's inability to restore order. That is to say, the entire BLM movement and the totality of the protests would be no more able to resist the serious use of military assets than the clowns who think they and their puny guns could actually overthrow an 'oppressive' U.S. government.
I didn't mean it in the sense that he's completely incapable of bringing order. You're certainly correct that he could go Soviet Bloc and bring things to a close quite promptly. That wouldn't really win him the applause of potential voters, though, who aren't really eager to see the US military reenacting Tiananmen. I think at this point just about any normal politician probably could have negotiated some agreement that would have blunted the edges of this; Trump just lacks that capacity. Meaning he's left with either trying to lie it away, or pulling out the hammer. Neither of which are good in an election year unless things get a lot worse.
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

Post by Shem »

D.A. Ridgely wrote: 30 Aug 2020, 22:57
dbcooper wrote: 30 Aug 2020, 22:36
To put it mildly, I wouldn't call Luntz the most credible of pollsters.
RCP also derives their averages by simple addition of the most recent polls, irrespective of methodology. Besides that, I've spent the past 4 years hearing about how those polls sucked, now I'm supposed to compare them to now, even though the new methodology takes the results of 2016 into consideration?
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

Shem wrote: 31 Aug 2020, 01:27
D.A. Ridgely wrote: 30 Aug 2020, 22:42 Just in case someone doesn't already know, my hometown of Arlington, Virginia is separated from Washington, D.C. by the Potomac River. I was 16 in April, 1968 and, on reflection, my father and other adults were as palpably afraid during the D.C. Riots as they were during the Cuban Missile Crisis. I don't think my dad ever shot a firearm in his life, but I'm sure that gun sales skyrocketed and that there were people who'd already figured out how they might have to defend Arlington from the Virginia side of Key, 14th St. and Memorial Bridge. For that matter, I'd guess more than one Georgetown resident figured out his escape plan across Chain Bridge into Virginia.
I'm curious; was that the first "major" set of riots you remember in that era? Reading about that period, it always kind of reminded me of how people my age reacted to school shootings. We had Columbine, which was the one that made them a "thing" for us, and that one hit like a natural disaster. Everyone was twitchy for weeks after the fact, expecting one of the class weirdos to go copycat. By the time we made it to number 4 or 5, though, it was just kind of a thing that we heard about from somewhere, like a California earthquake. I kind of feel like rioting is similar; shocking at one point, but now it's just kind of something that happens in cities sometimes.
No, I remember, though far less distinctly, there being riots in other cities in the 60s, but I admit to having to look up the fact that they were in Watts and Newark. They were something you saw on TV if your parents watched the evening news, which my father usually did. Same with the police attacks on Civil Rights marchers in the deeper South, it wasn't close enough or threatening enough to make a bigger impact on me.

Although there was no violence attendant to it, I do remember Arlington's school integration, though. In fact, the first black kid to attend a previously all-white school in Arlington was in my 6th grade class. A year or two earlier, the junior high school (aka middle school) I attended was the first school in all of Virginia to integrate. Even long after that there were two black neighborhoods in Arlington and probably restrictive covenants in deeds still being enforced. I was unaware of it, but there were lunch counter sit-in protests at the drug store closest to my home and I can't say exactly when it was, but in the mid-60s I recall being surprised to see a black man walk past my house. That's all, just walking past my house. I'd never seen that before.
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

Post by Eric the .5b »

I mean, these particular chucklefucks have always been useless, but this would be the time they decided to do anything.

Image

I like that, though. All the people killed by MAGA fucks, and this is the "first shot".
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

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My concern re:civil war isn't the next Kyle Rittenhouse shooting one or two people or the tanks rolling down the street, it's that the next Kyle Rittenhouse sets themselves up on rooftops mass shooter style. In multiple cities. The Unhinged Militia is easy to mock but it just takes a few to actually follow through for there to be mass casualties and a further escalation in unrest, especially after Trump pardons them.
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

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D.A. Ridgely wrote: 30 Aug 2020, 22:42
Shem wrote: 30 Aug 2020, 18:40 Kenosha is too close to "normal violence" to come within an order of magnitude of 9/11. How many "long hot summer-esque events" have happened in my lifetime? How many in D.A. Ridgely's? Unless a suburb actually starts burning, it's just going to prompt more "wow, cities are shitholes, Someone should do Something" sentiment. And in that situation, capitalizing would require actually restoring order, which is not something Trump can manage. If he could, it would have happened in Portland.
Just in case someone doesn't already know, my hometown of Arlington, Virginia is separated from Washington, D.C. by the Potomac River. I was 16 in April, 1968 and, on reflection, my father and other adults were as palpably afraid during the D.C. Riots as they were during the Cuban Missile Crisis. I don't think my dad ever shot a firearm in his life, but I'm sure that gun sales skyrocketed and that there were people who'd already figured out how they might have to defend Arlington from the Virginia side of Key, 14th St. and Memorial Bridge. For that matter, I'd guess more than one Georgetown resident figured out his escape plan across Chain Bridge into Virginia.

But truth be told, life pretty much went on as usual in the D.C. suburbs as far as I can recollect for the four days of rioting in D.C. and the actual rioting, arson and looting was concentrated along 14th Street N.W., 7th Street N.W. and H Street N.E.., the core commercial strips of black Washington. There was no agenda; the riots were fueled by anger and, honestly, anarchy and opportunism. (Half of D.C.'s liquor stores were looted.)

And, yeah, that's as close to an actual riot I ever got. I was in or close to some of the anti-war demonstrations in D.C. but whatever confrontations occurred in any of them was small change by comparison.

So I'm inclined to agree with Shem here on his first point; the violence and destruction would have to hit the suburbs. I'm less sanguine about Trump's inability to restore order. That is to say, the entire BLM movement and the totality of the protests would be no more able to resist the serious use of military assets than the clowns who think they and their puny guns could actually overthrow an 'oppressive' U.S. government. Does Trump lack the courage to do such a thing or is he sufficiently reckless to respond with overwhelming force? Beats me, but sufficient assets sure as hell are there to be used if the public supported it.

Mind you, no matter how bad things get, we still aren't going to have civil war or a military coup. We're going to have an election in November, the results are going to be known and generally accepted, however grudgingly, long before January, and even if Trump wins again we're going to do it all again in 2024 and there will be a peaceful transition of government.
This points out an issue I think is part of the problem of perception that people have about events. There's no sense of scale. With the rise of TV and now the 24/7 internet with all of its point of view reporting, there is an immediacy to it that tricks people into thinking many of these events are bigger than they are. I live in the Seattle/King County area and during the whole CHAZ thing I had friends and family all contact me inquiring if I was doing alright because of "all the problems" there. CHAZ was like a few city blocks in downtown Seattle. 99.9% of the Seattle/King County area likely wouldn't have even known about it if no one had reported anything. Yet many people seemed to think the city had turned into some lawless region with chaos in the streets. It might have sucked for the small percentage of people caught in the middle of it but it essentially caused zero issues for everyone outside it. Yet people were using it as an example of how law and order was breaking down "everywhere."
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

Post by Warren »

Painboy wrote: 31 Aug 2020, 13:22
D.A. Ridgely wrote: 30 Aug 2020, 22:42
Shem wrote: 30 Aug 2020, 18:40 Kenosha is too close to "normal violence" to come within an order of magnitude of 9/11. How many "long hot summer-esque events" have happened in my lifetime? How many in D.A. Ridgely's? Unless a suburb actually starts burning, it's just going to prompt more "wow, cities are shitholes, Someone should do Something" sentiment. And in that situation, capitalizing would require actually restoring order, which is not something Trump can manage. If he could, it would have happened in Portland.
Just in case someone doesn't already know, my hometown of Arlington, Virginia is separated from Washington, D.C. by the Potomac River. I was 16 in April, 1968 and, on reflection, my father and other adults were as palpably afraid during the D.C. Riots as they were during the Cuban Missile Crisis. I don't think my dad ever shot a firearm in his life, but I'm sure that gun sales skyrocketed and that there were people who'd already figured out how they might have to defend Arlington from the Virginia side of Key, 14th St. and Memorial Bridge. For that matter, I'd guess more than one Georgetown resident figured out his escape plan across Chain Bridge into Virginia.

But truth be told, life pretty much went on as usual in the D.C. suburbs as far as I can recollect for the four days of rioting in D.C. and the actual rioting, arson and looting was concentrated along 14th Street N.W., 7th Street N.W. and H Street N.E.., the core commercial strips of black Washington. There was no agenda; the riots were fueled by anger and, honestly, anarchy and opportunism. (Half of D.C.'s liquor stores were looted.)

And, yeah, that's as close to an actual riot I ever got. I was in or close to some of the anti-war demonstrations in D.C. but whatever confrontations occurred in any of them was small change by comparison.

So I'm inclined to agree with Shem here on his first point; the violence and destruction would have to hit the suburbs. I'm less sanguine about Trump's inability to restore order. That is to say, the entire BLM movement and the totality of the protests would be no more able to resist the serious use of military assets than the clowns who think they and their puny guns could actually overthrow an 'oppressive' U.S. government. Does Trump lack the courage to do such a thing or is he sufficiently reckless to respond with overwhelming force? Beats me, but sufficient assets sure as hell are there to be used if the public supported it.

Mind you, no matter how bad things get, we still aren't going to have civil war or a military coup. We're going to have an election in November, the results are going to be known and generally accepted, however grudgingly, long before January, and even if Trump wins again we're going to do it all again in 2024 and there will be a peaceful transition of government.
This points out an issue I think is part of the problem of perception that people have about events. There's no sense of scale. With the rise of TV and now the 24/7 internet with all of its point of view reporting, there is an immediacy to it that tricks people into thinking many of these events are bigger than they are. I live in the Seattle/King County area and during the whole CHAZ thing I had friends and family all contact me inquiring if I was doing alright because of "all the problems" there. CHAZ was like a few city blocks in downtown Seattle. 99.9% of the Seattle/King County area likely wouldn't have even known about it if no one had reported anything. Yet many people seemed to think the city had turned into some lawless region with chaos in the streets. It might have sucked for the small percentage of people caught in the middle of it but it essentially caused zero issues for everyone outside it. Yet people were using it as an example of how law and order was breaking down "everywhere."
But the thing is, Law Enforcement failed to enforce the law. That will only lead to escalation of lawlessness. And if they couldn't keep order in a few city blocks, what happens when it's a few dozen?

The TV & internet are telling me that down the road in Portland, mobs are roaming the suburbs dragging people out of their homes. And it's not confined to the left coast either. DC, Minneapolis, and even fucking Kenosha are all under assault.

This can only lead to one thing. Four more years.
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Re: Whither the GOP? (post-Trump edition)

Post by lunchstealer »

Warren wrote: 31 Aug 2020, 13:41But the thing is, Law Enforcement failed to enforce the law. That will only lead to escalation of lawlessness. And if they couldn't keep order in a few city blocks, what happens when it's a few dozen?

The TV & internet are telling me that down the road in Portland, mobs are roaming the suburbs dragging people out of their homes. And it's not confined to the left coast either. DC, Minneapolis, and even fucking Kenosha are all under assault.
You know that's not true, right? You are making the point that people think that's what's happening, and that it's the perception that matters? Tough to be sure these days.

But obviously there haven't been any more CHAZes after the first one petered out under its own unwieldiness. And while there has been continued vandalism and occasionally it's escalated to arson and occasionally to shooting, the perception that OMG THE CITIES ARE BURNING is pretty much bullshit. Almost everyone in Portland doesn't have to give a shit what's going on downtown.

Compared to, say, the Watts riots or Rodney King riots, these are practically nothing. Those saw destroyed buildings breaking the four digit barrier in single cities in less than a week. I can't find hard numbers, but it looks like we haven't broken that threshold nationwide in three months of protests. In Minneapolis it's being described as 'dozens' and they were among the hardest hit. I don't know of any in greater Denver, but I think Denver has been calmer than Chicago or Minneapolis or Atlanta.
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