Orange is the new President

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Eric the .5b
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Eric the .5b »

Jennifer wrote:
26 Mar 2020, 16:47
Tl:dr: I can't recall any other time when Americans or anyone else so overwhelmingly supported a leader whose explicit message was "You personally are on your own, and probably should drop dead."
Well, a faction of Americans that desperately wants creepy, racist grandpa in charge.

The majority of the public dislikes-to-hates this guy.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
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Kolohe
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Kolohe »

Hugh Akston wrote:
26 Mar 2020, 17:54
He didn't lose support when his good and easy to win trade wars ankled agriculture exports and killed manufacturing jobs. Why would this cost him anything?
Because the MAGAstanis that owned the farms got a bailout while the Latin American workers on the farms got laid off. (And went back to their home country)


So win win in their book
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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Painboy
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Painboy »

Jennifer wrote:
26 Mar 2020, 17:47
Painboy wrote:
26 Mar 2020, 17:24
Jennifer wrote:
26 Mar 2020, 17:16
Painboy wrote:
26 Mar 2020, 16:56
But they accept that because they think he's in their corner. They're not all fools.
Excluding the small numbers of "they" who have net worths of at least eight figures, AND are considered personal friends/bigtime donors of Trump -- those two sentences contradict each other: the majority of MAGA-hat types are fools (or abysmally, willfully ignorant) if they think Trump is in their corner. Especially the many MAGAs who fall into one of more of the high-risk categories for covid-19.
What are you talking about? He does do what they want him to do. All that border and immigrant shit we've been talking about for the last 3+ years? Not being PC and "calling it like it is"? That's all MAGA stuff. Has any other politician been as out spoken or effective with that crap? Of course he's in their corner.
[Sigh] Do I really have to explicitly point out to you that I am referring here specifically to those who continue to support Trump and Co. in regard to covid-19 and their handling of the matter thus far, despite said supporters' own increased risk from the disease? Just in case, let me copy and paste something I wrote upthread to demonstrate that:
But many of the people who, statistically speaking, are far more likely to die or suffer severe lifelong problems if they get covid-19 are the same ones who remain supporters of Trump and his GOP sycophants -- for one recent facepalming example, I have not seen any indication that Texas' Dan Patrick is losing support among the right-wing AARP demographic despite his saying they ought to be happy to die to save the economy for their grandchildren.
You're talking about the possible effects. I'm talking about trust. Why would they suddenly start trusting someone else instead of the guy who isn't shitting on them constantly, deserved or not? Trump has made things happen that they want and doesn't overtly treat them like dirt. Of course they're going to listen to him whatever his faults. The other side of the aisle treats them like a bunch of monkeys. Why would they listen to anyone else?

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thoreau
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by thoreau »

We treat them like monkeys because their actions are barely even the actions of primates.

I'm 100% serious when I say that you should have to pass a written test on history, economics, statistics, science, and basic medical knowledge before you're allowed to vote. And yes, I know how much racist history there is behind tests for voters. Trust me, very few racist whites would pass my tests.
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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

thoreau wrote:
26 Mar 2020, 20:37
We treat them like monkeys because their actions are barely even the actions of primates.

I'm 100% serious when I say that you should have to pass a written test on history, economics, statistics, science, and basic medical knowledge before you're allowed to vote. And yes, I know how much racist history there is behind tests for voters. Trust me, very few racist whites would pass my tests.
Might want to throw in some elementary informal logic in that test, too.

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Aresen
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Aresen »

D.A. Ridgely wrote:
26 Mar 2020, 20:45
thoreau wrote:
26 Mar 2020, 20:37
We treat them like monkeys because their actions are barely even the actions of primates.

I'm 100% serious when I say that you should have to pass a written test on history, economics, statistics, science, and basic medical knowledge before you're allowed to vote. And yes, I know how much racist history there is behind tests for voters. Trust me, very few racist whites would pass my tests.
Might want to throw in some elementary informal logic in that test, too.
Having to solve a simple algebra problem would weed out most of the ones you want removed.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

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Jennifer
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Jennifer »

Painboy wrote:
26 Mar 2020, 20:20
Jennifer wrote:
26 Mar 2020, 17:47
Painboy wrote:
26 Mar 2020, 17:24
Jennifer wrote:
26 Mar 2020, 17:16
Painboy wrote:
26 Mar 2020, 16:56
But they accept that because they think he's in their corner. They're not all fools.
Excluding the small numbers of "they" who have net worths of at least eight figures, AND are considered personal friends/bigtime donors of Trump -- those two sentences contradict each other: the majority of MAGA-hat types are fools (or abysmally, willfully ignorant) if they think Trump is in their corner. Especially the many MAGAs who fall into one of more of the high-risk categories for covid-19.
What are you talking about? He does do what they want him to do. All that border and immigrant shit we've been talking about for the last 3+ years? Not being PC and "calling it like it is"? That's all MAGA stuff. Has any other politician been as out spoken or effective with that crap? Of course he's in their corner.
[Sigh] Do I really have to explicitly point out to you that I am referring here specifically to those who continue to support Trump and Co. in regard to covid-19 and their handling of the matter thus far, despite said supporters' own increased risk from the disease? Just in case, let me copy and paste something I wrote upthread to demonstrate that:
But many of the people who, statistically speaking, are far more likely to die or suffer severe lifelong problems if they get covid-19 are the same ones who remain supporters of Trump and his GOP sycophants -- for one recent facepalming example, I have not seen any indication that Texas' Dan Patrick is losing support among the right-wing AARP demographic despite his saying they ought to be happy to die to save the economy for their grandchildren.
You're talking about the possible effects. I'm talking about trust. Why would they suddenly start trusting someone else instead of the guy who isn't shitting on them constantly, deserved or not? Trump has made things happen that they want and doesn't overtly treat them like dirt. Of course they're going to listen to him whatever his faults. The other side of the aisle treats them like a bunch of monkeys. Why would they listen to anyone else?
Out of curiosity, Painboy, which cause-and-effect relationship do you think applies here: Trump fans were reasonable, level-headed people until Never Trumpers and Democrats and (((presumed others))) started treating them like monkeys, as you put, thus making the Trumpsters decide "Fuck everyone who disagrees with Trump" ... or did Trumpsters start behaving badly enough to make Never Trumpers and Democrats et all start treating them like a bunch of monkeys?
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

Speaking only for myself as a Coastal Elite, Jennifer, I'd say we've been treating or at least regarding most of Trump's base supporters as monkeys long before Trump ever came along.

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Shem
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Shem »

Painboy wrote:
26 Mar 2020, 15:56
And here I was hoping that this was the thing that was going to bring down his presidency.

President Trump is as popular as he's ever been right now
In the Gallup poll, 60% of Americans approve of the job Trump is doing in handling the crisis while 38% disapprove of how he has done. Six in 10 independents approve of how Trump has done on the coronavirus as do more than 1 in 4 (27%) of Democrats. In the Monmouth poll, 50% say Trump has done a good job with coronavirus while 45% said he has done a bad job.
The heightened approval for how Trump has managed this crisis -- particularly among independents and even Democrats -- is what is pushing up his overall approval numbers, which have been largely stagnant for years.
Granted the crisis is still young and lots of things can change.
Depends who you're looking at.. He's gotten more popular, but the idea that 60% of the country approves of his response seems nonsensical on its face. The stock market dropped 400 points in the middle of one of his speeches; people aren't that out of touch. They're just committed to supporting their guy come what may.
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Painboy
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Painboy »

Shem wrote:
26 Mar 2020, 22:18
Painboy wrote:
26 Mar 2020, 15:56
And here I was hoping that this was the thing that was going to bring down his presidency.

President Trump is as popular as he's ever been right now
In the Gallup poll, 60% of Americans approve of the job Trump is doing in handling the crisis while 38% disapprove of how he has done. Six in 10 independents approve of how Trump has done on the coronavirus as do more than 1 in 4 (27%) of Democrats. In the Monmouth poll, 50% say Trump has done a good job with coronavirus while 45% said he has done a bad job.
The heightened approval for how Trump has managed this crisis -- particularly among independents and even Democrats -- is what is pushing up his overall approval numbers, which have been largely stagnant for years.
Granted the crisis is still young and lots of things can change.
Depends who you're looking at.. He's gotten more popular, but the idea that 60% of the country approves of his response seems nonsensical on its face. The stock market dropped 400 points in the middle of one of his speeches; people aren't that out of touch. They're just committed to supporting their guy come what may.
We can always hope. Like I said the crisis is young. It would be nice if some good came out of it.

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Painboy
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Painboy »

Jennifer wrote:
26 Mar 2020, 21:43
Painboy wrote:
26 Mar 2020, 20:20
Jennifer wrote:
26 Mar 2020, 17:47
Painboy wrote:
26 Mar 2020, 17:24
Jennifer wrote:
26 Mar 2020, 17:16
Painboy wrote:
26 Mar 2020, 16:56
But they accept that because they think he's in their corner. They're not all fools.
Excluding the small numbers of "they" who have net worths of at least eight figures, AND are considered personal friends/bigtime donors of Trump -- those two sentences contradict each other: the majority of MAGA-hat types are fools (or abysmally, willfully ignorant) if they think Trump is in their corner. Especially the many MAGAs who fall into one of more of the high-risk categories for covid-19.
What are you talking about? He does do what they want him to do. All that border and immigrant shit we've been talking about for the last 3+ years? Not being PC and "calling it like it is"? That's all MAGA stuff. Has any other politician been as out spoken or effective with that crap? Of course he's in their corner.
[Sigh] Do I really have to explicitly point out to you that I am referring here specifically to those who continue to support Trump and Co. in regard to covid-19 and their handling of the matter thus far, despite said supporters' own increased risk from the disease? Just in case, let me copy and paste something I wrote upthread to demonstrate that:
But many of the people who, statistically speaking, are far more likely to die or suffer severe lifelong problems if they get covid-19 are the same ones who remain supporters of Trump and his GOP sycophants -- for one recent facepalming example, I have not seen any indication that Texas' Dan Patrick is losing support among the right-wing AARP demographic despite his saying they ought to be happy to die to save the economy for their grandchildren.
You're talking about the possible effects. I'm talking about trust. Why would they suddenly start trusting someone else instead of the guy who isn't shitting on them constantly, deserved or not? Trump has made things happen that they want and doesn't overtly treat them like dirt. Of course they're going to listen to him whatever his faults. The other side of the aisle treats them like a bunch of monkeys. Why would they listen to anyone else?
Out of curiosity, Painboy, which cause-and-effect relationship do you think applies here: Trump fans were reasonable, level-headed people until Never Trumpers and Democrats and (((presumed others))) started treating them like monkeys, as you put, thus making the Trumpsters decide "Fuck everyone who disagrees with Trump" ... or did Trumpsters start behaving badly enough to make Never Trumpers and Democrats et all start treating them like a bunch of monkeys?
You continue to see these people as a monolithic block. There is a reason some Republican strategist were nervous about a Bernie nomination. He actually cut into some of Trump's base. That's just one example. There are many more out there. Trump of course appeals to the MAGAs but those aren't the only people who voted for him and support him. That support might be a little less if there wasn't a persistent admonishment for everyone who happened to vote for Trump or who isn't completely revolted by every one of his policies.

This is not me making excuses for them either. They believe dumb and often terrible things. But if we don't give some of them somewhere to go we shouldn't be surprised when they shack up with a guy like Trump.

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Eric the .5b
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Eric the .5b »

Full-on natural selection may kick in for a bunch of older Trump voters. The ones who realize he isn't taking a dangerous pandemic seriously can turn against him or stay home in November. A large chunk of the others will end up like that pastor who just died.

Reality doesn't care about your resentful suspicion that other people look down on you. Reality doesn't care if you have no political place to go. Reality always has a place to put you, and that's the grave.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
Cet animal est très méchant / Quand on l'attaque il se défend.

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Jennifer
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Jennifer »

Painboy wrote:
27 Mar 2020, 02:46
Jennifer wrote:
26 Mar 2020, 21:43
Painboy wrote:
26 Mar 2020, 20:20
Jennifer wrote:
26 Mar 2020, 17:47
Painboy wrote:
26 Mar 2020, 17:24
Jennifer wrote:
26 Mar 2020, 17:16


Excluding the small numbers of "they" who have net worths of at least eight figures, AND are considered personal friends/bigtime donors of Trump -- those two sentences contradict each other: the majority of MAGA-hat types are fools (or abysmally, willfully ignorant) if they think Trump is in their corner. Especially the many MAGAs who fall into one of more of the high-risk categories for covid-19.
What are you talking about? He does do what they want him to do. All that border and immigrant shit we've been talking about for the last 3+ years? Not being PC and "calling it like it is"? That's all MAGA stuff. Has any other politician been as out spoken or effective with that crap? Of course he's in their corner.
[Sigh] Do I really have to explicitly point out to you that I am referring here specifically to those who continue to support Trump and Co. in regard to covid-19 and their handling of the matter thus far, despite said supporters' own increased risk from the disease? Just in case, let me copy and paste something I wrote upthread to demonstrate that:
But many of the people who, statistically speaking, are far more likely to die or suffer severe lifelong problems if they get covid-19 are the same ones who remain supporters of Trump and his GOP sycophants -- for one recent facepalming example, I have not seen any indication that Texas' Dan Patrick is losing support among the right-wing AARP demographic despite his saying they ought to be happy to die to save the economy for their grandchildren.
You're talking about the possible effects. I'm talking about trust. Why would they suddenly start trusting someone else instead of the guy who isn't shitting on them constantly, deserved or not? Trump has made things happen that they want and doesn't overtly treat them like dirt. Of course they're going to listen to him whatever his faults. The other side of the aisle treats them like a bunch of monkeys. Why would they listen to anyone else?
Out of curiosity, Painboy, which cause-and-effect relationship do you think applies here: Trump fans were reasonable, level-headed people until Never Trumpers and Democrats and (((presumed others))) started treating them like monkeys, as you put, thus making the Trumpsters decide "Fuck everyone who disagrees with Trump" ... or did Trumpsters start behaving badly enough to make Never Trumpers and Democrats et all start treating them like a bunch of monkeys?
You continue to see these people as a monolithic block. There is a reason some Republican strategist were nervous about a Bernie nomination. He actually cut into some of Trump's base. That's just one example. There are many more out there. Trump of course appeals to the MAGAs but those aren't the only people who voted for him and support him. That support might be a little less if there wasn't a persistent admonishment for everyone who happened to vote for Trump or who isn't completely revolted by every one of his policies.

This is not me making excuses for them either. They believe dumb and often terrible things. But if we don't give some of them somewhere to go we shouldn't be surprised when they shack up with a guy like Trump.
I'm regarding them as a bunch of individuals who all have one thing in common: namely, they're all making a very bad choice in regard to a certain issue. So allow me to repeat my question, which refers to any individual you want it to -- which cause-and-effect relationship do you think applies here: Trump fans were reasonable, level-headed people until Never Trumpers and Democrats and (((presumed others))) started treating them like monkeys, as you put, thus making the Trumpsters decide "Fuck everyone who disagrees with Trump" ... or did Trumpsters start behaving badly enough to make Never Trumpers and Democrats et all start treating them like a bunch of monkeys?
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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Mo
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Mo »

Just because a crisis leads to a short term bump in the President’s popularity doesn’t mean it will help in the upcoming election.

https://www.nytimes.com/1979/12/10/arch ... risis.html
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thoreau
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by thoreau »

"There are so few people at the Federal Mall it's almost as empty as it was at Trump's inauguration."
--D.A. Ridgely

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Aresen
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Aresen »

Mo wrote:
27 Mar 2020, 17:53
Just because a crisis leads to a short term bump in the President’s popularity doesn’t mean it will help in the upcoming election.

https://www.nytimes.com/1979/12/10/arch ... risis.html
That was before the disasterous failed rescue mission and the hostage situation dragged on for a year.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Ellie »

The Bureau of Indian Affairs today told the Mashpee Wampanoag tribe that the Secretary of the Interior has ordered that their reservation be disestablished and their land be taken out of trust.
https://mashpeewampanoagtribe-nsn.gov/n ... f-our-land
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Jennifer
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Jennifer »

At a press conference, Trump openly admits that he told Pence, head of the coronavirus task force, to ignore governors in hard-hit states if they weren't sufficiently "appreciative."

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-say ... D=ref_fark
Shortly after the U.S. death toll from the coronavirus pandemic reached 1,500 on Friday, President Donald Trump took to the podium at a White House press briefing and complained that certain state’s governors are not “appreciative” enough of the federal government’s help—so much so that he said he’d told Vice President Mike Pence, the leader of the coronavirus task force, to skip calling governors of some hard-hit areas.

Trump singled out the Democratic leaders of Washington and Michigan, noting that he had advised Pence not to call them as the healthcare crisis plagues their states and people fall sick and die.

“He calls all the governors,” Trump said. “I tell him, I mean, I'm a different type of person. I say Mike, don't call the governor of Washington, you're wasting your time with him. Don't call the woman in Michigan.”

“If they don't treat you right, I don't call,” Trump said.
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Kolohe
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Kolohe »

Ellie wrote:
27 Mar 2020, 23:50
The Bureau of Indian Affairs today told the Mashpee Wampanoag tribe that the Secretary of the Interior has ordered that their reservation be disestablished and their land be taken out of trust.
https://mashpeewampanoagtribe-nsn.gov/n ... f-our-land
I don’t the details of this one, but the (relatively recent) federal recognition of most of the Native American tribes in New England has been...complicated. But also for certain, Trump himself personally has been a bad faith actor throughout the process of that entire era as well.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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Kolohe
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Kolohe »

(There’s a related dynamic to that of some of the state recognized, but not federally recognized tribes in Virginia - who also are the ones that Dan Snyder touts as ‘Native Americans who are pro-Redskins team name’)
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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Andrew
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Andrew »

Kolohe wrote:
28 Mar 2020, 13:40
Ellie wrote:
27 Mar 2020, 23:50
The Bureau of Indian Affairs today told the Mashpee Wampanoag tribe that the Secretary of the Interior has ordered that their reservation be disestablished and their land be taken out of trust.
https://mashpeewampanoagtribe-nsn.gov/n ... f-our-land
I don’t the details of this one, but the (relatively recent) federal recognition of most of the Native American tribes in New England has been...complicated. But also for certain, Trump himself personally has been a bad faith actor throughout the process of that entire era as well.
Yeah, this. Trump, Interior, and the BIA are all bad actors here, but the tribes who have gotten federal recognition in the 2000s aren't exactly pure of heart either.
We live in the fucked age. Get used to it. - dhex

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Ellie
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Ellie »

It's definitely a case of "maybe you're in the right, but now is NOT the time."
"Yours is the much better comeback." -JD

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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Warren »

Ellie wrote:
28 Mar 2020, 15:10
It's definitely a case of "maybe you're in the right, but now is NOT the time."
When is a better time than now?
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Andrew »

Warren wrote:
28 Mar 2020, 15:22
Ellie wrote:
28 Mar 2020, 15:10
It's definitely a case of "maybe you're in the right, but now is NOT the time."
When is a better time than now?
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Jennifer
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Jennifer »

The Projector-in-Chief suggests the shortage of masks and related medical equipment is because healthcare workers are stealing them.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/d ... RAQi4c45C0

Cut and paste of something the Moorfield Storey Institute wrote about it on Facebook:
Once again the ignorant occupant of the White House has lashed out, this time attacking health workers because he (Trump) is unable to understand why there is a demand for protective masks during the pandemic he kept claiming was a hoax.

He attacked workers at a hospital in New York City because it used to used 10,000 to 20,000 maks and now it needs 300,000. Most of the time masks aren't needed unless dealing with a patient with a contagious disease. Now with hundreds of such patients the gear has to be changed between each patient being helped.

Trump attacked the health care workers implying they are stealing the masks and selling them. "For years [suppliers] have been delivering ten to twenty thousand masks. OK, it’s a New York hospital and it’s packed all the time but how do you go from ten to twenty thousand to 300,000?”

“Something’s going on and you ought to look into it as reporters.

Where are the masks going? Are they going out the back door? And we. have that in a lot of different places so somebody should probably look into that because I just don’t see from a practical standpoint how that’s possible.”

Questioned about it he told reporters that what the workers are doing is "worse than hoarding." Yet, Trump has absolutely no evidence for this. Previously he asserted, again without evidence, that hospitals are hoarding ventilators.

It would appear that Trump is desperate to pin the blame for his administration failing to prepare for a pandemic—even after they were warning it was now here—on others. It's never the Narcissists fault, the buck always stops at someone else's desk, the Narcissist is always perfect and worthy of praise and if something goes wrong it is the evil machinations of others, never the failure of the Narcissist himself. But really, blaming the heroes in this epidemic is a new low even for someone as slimy and sad as Trump.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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