Antivaxxers

[Pham Nuwen]

WTF, all of his kids were born after the vaccine was commercialized.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/kids-hea ... ox-n985551

I'm sure the children will bless him when they develop shingles in 50 years or so.

That's pretty much a given for 1/3 of people who have had the vaccine or had chicken pox.

[Mo]

I thought the vaccine prevents shingles because you never had the varicella virus.

[dhex]

You can get shingles with the weakened live vaccine but it's supposed to be less serious.

There's also a shingles vaccine or three iirc.

[D.A. Ridgely]

Six year old OR boy spends 3 1/2 months and $800k recovering from an easily-prevented case of tetanus

The child had to be sedated. A tracheostomy was performed so that he could be put on a mechanical ventilator to help him breath. He remained on the ventilator for more than five weeks. Because of the pain caused by the spasms, he required muscle relaxants as well as drugs to stabilize his blood pressure in addition to the medications to counter the tetanus toxins.

Good thing his parents didn't endanger their child by vaccinating him.

$811K in medical bills. And, if I read the story correctly, they are STILL refusing to vaccinate their kid.

They say that, but the truth is they can't afford it any longer.

[Pham Nuwen]

I thought the vaccine prevents shingles because you never had the varicella virus.

We're talking about the new one right? I'm not terribly familiar with it but I want to say you are correct? I'll ask traveller. She's always going on about shingles. I'm not joking. Always.

[D.A. Ridgely]

I thought the vaccine prevents shingles because you never had the varicella virus.

We're talking about the new one right? I'm not terribly familiar with it but I want to say you are correct? I'll ask traveller. She's always going on about shingles. I'm not joking. Always.

Yes. You can't get shingles if you've never had chicken pox. It's a recurrence of the varicella zoster virus which never entirely leaves a once-infected body.

[Shem]

WTF, all of his kids were born after the vaccine was commercialized.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/kids-hea ... ox-n985551

I'm sure the children will bless him when they develop shingles in 50 years or so.

If that long. My cousin already got them, and he's younger than I am (our family is especially prone to them, though).

[Pham Nuwen]

I wasn't aware there was one without a weakened virus. What's it got? Viral protein elements? I guess technically you only need the antigen parts but that's kind of where my knowledge drifts off completely as I don't know how you would get them without the virus itself. I'll talk to traveller.

[Pham Nuwen]

WTF, all of his kids were born after the vaccine was commercialized.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/kids-hea ... ox-n985551

I'm sure the children will bless him when they develop shingles in 50 years or so.

If that long. My cousin already got them, and he's younger than I am (our family is especially prone to them, though).

There's a strong suspicion that the varicella vaccine currently used is causing shingles at very early and unheard of ages. I'm not aware of whether it is true or not.

[Shem]

WTF, all of his kids were born after the vaccine was commercialized.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/kids-hea ... ox-n985551

I'm sure the children will bless him when they develop shingles in 50 years or so.

If that long. My cousin already got them, and he's younger than I am (our family is especially prone to them, though).

There's a strong suspicion that the varicella vaccine currently used is causing shingles at very early and unheard of ages. I'm not aware of whether it is true or not.

He came by his immunity the old fashioned way. Just bad luck and genetics.

[Mo]

WTF, all of his kids were born after the vaccine was commercialized.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/kids-hea ... ox-n985551

I'm sure the children will bless him when they develop shingles in 50 years or so.

If that long. My cousin already got them, and he's younger than I am (our family is especially prone to them, though).

There's a strong suspicion that the varicella vaccine currently used is causing shingles at very early and unheard of ages. I'm not aware of whether it is true or not.

Interesting. It looks like it does because it reduces the amount of reexposure to chickenpox. Looks like shingles tends to come on at younger ages as well, but the severity is greatly reduced.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 103555.htm

[JasonL]

I learn things all the time here on the gryll.

[Pham Nuwen]

I learn things all the time here on the gryll.

I truly feel that this is what keeps us together as a group. We may have serious arguments. And sometimes it's a little to much for peeps. But mostly I feel that as a group we just kind of go, "Huh. So that's a thing. Didn't know that. Interesting.".

[Mo]

So good news: My sister is pregnant.

Bad news: Turns our my BiL is an anti-vaxxer and now they’re fighting about it

I swear to god I will kidnap that kid and give my niece/nephew a back alley MMR vaccine.

[Jennifer]

Oh, hell. Hopefully your sister's pro-vaccine attitudes will override her husband's idiocy, where their kids are concerned.

[Hugh Akston]

I mean there's really not that much to fight about. Sis can just say "Okay I don't agree with your opinion but I respect it." Then make the vaccine appointment.

[thoreau]

So good news: My sister is pregnant.

Bad news: Turns our my BiL is an anti-vaxxer and now they’re fighting about it

I swear to god I will kidnap that kid and give my niece/nephew a back alley MMR vaccine.

Why is your sister reproducing with someone that stupid? Is she trying to corrupt the bloodline?

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk

[dhex]

So good news: My sister is pregnant.

Bad news: Turns our my BiL is an anti-vaxxer and now they’re fighting about it

I swear to god I will kidnap that kid and give my niece/nephew a back alley MMR vaccine.

Oh jeeze man lemme know if you need help I have a Kia soul with tinted windows and some bomb ass mixtapes

[Mo]

There is so much going on here.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/cr ... d_nn_tw_ma

[Pham Nuwen]

You can't give the MMR for the first year.

[Mo]

Look man, I have a 3 year old now. Ain’t nobody got time to memorize vaccination schedules.

[Pham Nuwen]

I have a 2 and 1/2 year old and a 4 year old. I feel you. Robbie got an MMR at 8 months. Kaiser wouldn't count it towards his schedule. That's how I know is all.

[Jennifer]

Regarding antivaxxers in general -- or, more specifically, antivaxxers who gussy up their arguments in libertarian dressings -- there IS one argument I've seen which I consider bullshit, but haven't been able to figure out le mot juste to explain why.

Background: I have one antivax FB friend (though she will bristle if you call her "antivax": she is NOT anti-vaccine, she sez, just anti-DANGEROUS vaccines, and anti MANDATORY vaccinations .... basically the antivax version of Glenn Beck's "I'm not saying anything; I'm just asking questions"). She's one of those "measles is a VERY MILD illness that even confers benefits" types, though her thinking has evolved a little bit over the years: she used to say similar things about whooping cough, whereas now, she admits that WC is enough of a danger to infants that she chose to get the vaccine .... though she still opposes making it mandatory for anyone, even a hypothetical unvaccinated adult who spends a lot of time around infants, or at least goes places infants and/or their caregivers are likely to be.

And, after questioning, it appears her oppostion to making ANY vaccine mandatory is based on a combination of a hyper-individualistic view of "personal freedom", coupled with a very high "fear of personal harm" -- IIRC somewhere she DID posit that IF a given vaccine could be proven 100 percent safe for every person on the planet, ever, she MIGHT be willing to mandate vaccination. But so long as there is even the slightest chance that anyone might have an adverse effect to any vaccine, she will not mandate it. (Apparently, even if the adverse effects are FAR milder than whatever disease the vaccine treats -- this is the same woman who, on another thread, mentioned her baby having "a day of fever and lethargy" after a vaccination as reasons why vaccines are dangerous. And apparently, she thinks "One day of guaranteed post-vaccination fever and lethargy" is worse than "the risk of the far worse, possibly fatal, disease that vaccine prevents."

Also, FWIW, she completely ignores my repeated mention of the standard liberty debate over conflicting rights -- when two people or two groups claim conflicting rights, whose rights take priority? Is my presumed right to refuse a vaccination and re-introduce a serious disease into a population more important than a population's presumed right to eradicate a serious disease (or keep it eradicated)? Or vice-versa?

So... have any of you some suggestions as to what I should say next time this comes up? This person is not the only "liberty" person or group I've seen who view ANY form of mandatory vaccination as a major threat to liberty because "the government has no right to force us to put XYZ in our bodies."

[Pham Nuwen]

She's a dishonest, selfish, stupid liar. You should unfriend her. That's how you win, baby. Scorched earth!

But seriously. She's a dishonest, selfish, stupid liar. You will never convince her. And you should unfriend her.

[Hugh Akston]

Ronald Bailey had a debate with Jeffrey Singer about vaccines that takes place almost exclusively in the libertarian sphere of thought, so it's worth perusing that for ideas.