Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

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Eric the .5b
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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by Eric the .5b » 12 Sep 2019, 19:22

thoreau wrote:
12 Sep 2019, 18:57
I read Soh charitably because of her own experience as a gender-non-conforming youth who desisted.
And I read her non-charitably because her arguments and claims look like the bizarro-world version of what transgender people I've known and heard from go through. And in the end, she still went to bat to protect conversion therapy for gay and transgender minors against a ban, despite her openly admitting that it's just plain abuse for gay people. So long as a few transgender kids get fixed, it's worth abusing many more gay kids to her.
thoreau wrote:
12 Sep 2019, 18:57
Is there any phrenology in Quillette beyond a comment on Boris Johnson's appearance?
Yes.

The reaction to this is where "craniology is not phrenology" (from a pre-unpersoned Ngo) became a laugh-line WRT Quillette.
thoreau wrote:
12 Sep 2019, 18:57
And, FYI, the comment about them being dead to me after the TSA article was a joke. I do have concerns about them of late, but the TSA article is not actually what would drive me away.
And I was being sarcastic. I genuinely don't see what value Quillette has beyond owning-the-libs, and the more I look into its contributors, the more disreputable the outlet looks to me. So, I can't really guess what would chase anyone following it away from it.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by thoreau » 12 Sep 2019, 19:34

Eric the .5b wrote:
12 Sep 2019, 19:22
I genuinely don't see what value Quillette has beyond owning-the-libs
I work in an environment where people are getting increasingly vocal about certain diversity narratives. And I've had people say to my face that I shouldn't ascribe differences in individual performance--not differences between groups, but individuals--to differences in ability or inclination. They've said to my face that everyone in college--everyone!--is capable of succeeding in whatever major they want. There are no individual differences in strengths or abilities or proclivities. This has been said to my face.

Quillette has published people who question diversity narratives and say that individual cognitive ability is a real and meaningful thing. In my setting, that's a blast of fresh air.

But over the past year I have found fewer interesting articles and noticed more objectionable articles. It's getting harder to ignore the objectionable stuff.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by JasonL » 12 Sep 2019, 19:58

If taken at face value they were always trying to thread a needle. It doesn’t appear to have worked out. Right Think is “everything other than our view is racist, sexist, white supremacist etc”. Defining a brand as “not that” is fraught.

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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 12 Sep 2019, 20:23

thoreau wrote:
12 Sep 2019, 18:57

And, FYI, the comment about them being dead to me after the TSA article was a joke. I do have concerns about them of late, but the TSA article is not actually what would drive me away.
We knew that. To drive you away permanently, they'd probably have to adopt a policy of publishing articles only by astronomers.

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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by Mo » 13 Sep 2019, 08:33

JasonL wrote:
12 Sep 2019, 19:58
If taken at face value they were always trying to thread a needle. It doesn’t appear to have worked out. Right Think is “everything other than our view is racist, sexist, white supremacist etc”. Defining a brand as “not that” is fraught.
It's like Gab. If you say you want to be the platform for all of the controversial views that can't get a platform, you're going to need a lot of stuff that haven't earned a platform because the gatekeepers made the right decision just to fill content. Also, if the gatekeepers aren't filtering as many controversial views as you think they are, you will let through a lot of chaff.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by JasonL » 13 Sep 2019, 09:53

Right. Come to think of it the whole right wing kinda has this feature. There is no affirmative definition of who they are, they are not obamacare, not globalists, not socialists ... well wtf is that?

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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by thoreau » 13 Sep 2019, 10:04

There is a lot of wheat mixed in with the chaff, which makes it a shame that they are going downhill. For instance, this is an article that could plausibly have appeared in Reason:

https://quillette.com/2019/09/12/anti-p ... treadmill/
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
--Mo

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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by JD » 13 Sep 2019, 10:20

thoreau wrote:
13 Sep 2019, 10:04
There is a lot of wheat mixed in with the chaff, which makes it a shame that they are going downhill. For instance, this is an article that could plausibly have appeared in Reason:

https://quillette.com/2019/09/12/anti-p ... treadmill/
I know, I know, never read the comments, but the comments are telling as to the readership. About 90% of them amount to "Well, porn is bad and shameful, so that ends the argument."
I sort of feel like a sucker about aspiring to be intellectually rigorous when I could just go on twitter and say capitalism causes space herpes and no one will challenge me on it. - Hugh Akston

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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by Eric the .5b » 13 Sep 2019, 16:06

thoreau wrote:
13 Sep 2019, 10:04
There is a lot of wheat mixed in with the chaff, which makes it a shame that they are going downhill. For instance, this is an article that could plausibly have appeared in Reason:

https://quillette.com/2019/09/12/anti-p ... treadmill/
Hell, that could have appeared a lot of places. What is it doing there?

That is a pretty decent article, I'll grant, and a quick trawl doesn't suggest that Ferguson is a shithead. It's not of a type with pretty much everything else anyone's pointed me to at Quillette.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by Mo » 21 Sep 2019, 11:13

Beyond parody.

his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by Eric the .5b » 21 Sep 2019, 22:28

Beyond that...Bragg is an icon beyond a few lefty boomers, most of which are Brits?

He just seems like a weird target to go all "Debate meee!" on.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by thoreau » 18 Nov 2019, 23:24

FWIW, Quillette just published an excerpt from Meghan Daum's latest book. Whether that reflects well or poorly on Daum and/or Quillette is very much a Rohrschach test.

https://quillette.com/2019/11/19/please ... st-badass/

I liked the book, overall, but maybe it's because, like her, I pay too much attention to the internet.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by Eric the .5b » 19 Nov 2019, 00:19

I'm vaguely and oddly reminded of that article someone posted by a burnout ex-biker mama about how she didn't think young guys were manly enough for beards.

But then, I say that having never heard of Daum or seeing much remarkable about her with a quick Google. Why is she in the "intellectual dark web"?
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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by Warren » 19 Nov 2019, 00:27

Eric the .5b wrote:
19 Nov 2019, 00:19
I'm vaguely and oddly reminded of that article someone posted by a burnout ex-biker mama about how she didn't think young guys were manly enough for beards.

But then, I say that having never heard of Daum or seeing much remarkable about her with a quick Google. Why is she in the "intellectual dark web"?
She isn't. She found the IDW before it was the IDW and when IDW became the IDW she cashed in on it by writing a book about the IDW.
The 5th C had her on a few weeks back.
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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by Eric the .5b » 19 Nov 2019, 00:30

I did get linked to this article by Deirdre McCloskey the other day. It was another, "Why is this here?" article.
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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by Eric the .5b » 19 Nov 2019, 00:31

Warren wrote:
19 Nov 2019, 00:27
Eric the .5b wrote:
19 Nov 2019, 00:19
I'm vaguely and oddly reminded of that article someone posted by a burnout ex-biker mama about how she didn't think young guys were manly enough for beards.

But then, I say that having never heard of Daum or seeing much remarkable about her with a quick Google. Why is she in the "intellectual dark web"?
She isn't. She found the IDW before it was the IDW and when IDW became the IDW she cashed in on it by writing a book about the IDW.
The 5th C had her on a few weeks back.
Ah.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by Andrew » 19 Nov 2019, 09:09

It feels like a feminism that has been ... brilliantly engineered to tap into our most narcissistic weaknesses while masquerading as strength.
This nails it. Like many other things in life, the type of feminism she describes is all identity and no action. It feels like action (posting shit on social media, wearing the right clothing, arguing online, etc.) but it's all just identity. Actually doing stuff is hard. Actually being a badass is an incredible amount of work. Declaring yourself one is much easier.
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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by JasonL » 19 Nov 2019, 09:42

She seemed very reasonable on 5thC

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Re: Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by Eric the .5b » 19 Nov 2019, 21:32

Andrew wrote:
19 Nov 2019, 09:09
It feels like action (posting shit on social media, wearing the right clothing, arguing online, etc.) but it's all just identity.
Years back, before it was a brand name, some people called it slacktivism. Turn your page green to support...whichever doomed revolution green was for.

But, I feel like I'm missing something. Is she actually managing to say anything more than, "people throwing around slogans and catchphrases on Twitter aren't accomplishing anything"? Because if you call in a CSI team, they might find traces of that horse's corpse. And I don't think she makes any successful argument beyond that.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
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Intellectualism: Dark and Webbed

Post by JasonL » 20 Nov 2019, 04:12

The additional layer is about the relationship between this notion of being a badass and modern feminism. It’s not just slacktivism it’s expression of a bizarre identity that isn’t really very feminist when you scratch the surface. That’s the claim anyway.

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