Dancing With the Dems

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Re: Dancing With the Dems

Post by Number 6 » 17 Nov 2019, 14:31

Mayor Pete surging in Iowa provides yet more evidence that the Dems are determined to do whatever it takes to ensure that the Orange One gets another four.
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

Post by Hugh Akston » 17 Nov 2019, 14:35

I don't know. I would take the Butt over Uncle Joe, Bernie, Warren, or Trump.
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

Post by Warren » 17 Nov 2019, 15:20

Hugh Akston wrote:
17 Nov 2019, 14:35
I don't know. I would take the Butt over Uncle Joe, Bernie, Warren, or Trump.
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

Post by Number 6 » 17 Nov 2019, 16:19

Hugh Akston wrote:
17 Nov 2019, 14:35
I don't know. I would take the Butt over Uncle Joe, Bernie, Warren, or Trump.
Sure. He's the better candidate in every sense, except that he's totally unelectable.
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

Post by thoreau » 17 Nov 2019, 16:29

I am disgusted that the mayor of a small city is even a contender. What's next? A reality TV star with a Twitter account?
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

Post by Warren » 17 Nov 2019, 16:47

thoreau wrote:
17 Nov 2019, 16:29
I am disgusted that the mayor of a small city is even a contender. What's next? A reality TV star with a Twitter account?
Well at least we're not scraping the bottom of the barrel with tenured STEM professors.
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

Post by thoreau » 17 Nov 2019, 17:50

There's nothing wrong with being the mayor of a small city. But it isn't sufficient qualification to be president.

And being a STEM professor is also not a sufficient qualification to be president. But I'm not running for president. The mayor of a small city is.
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

Post by Aresen » 17 Nov 2019, 18:40

Wasn't Truman a haberdasher before becoming a senator and then FDR's VP?
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

Post by lunchstealer » 17 Nov 2019, 19:52

Never a haberdasher that I can see, if the Wiki of Lies is to be believed, but railroad timekeeper, farmer, soldier, automotive club salesman, and judge.
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

Post by Eric the .5b » 17 Nov 2019, 20:01

Aresen wrote:
17 Nov 2019, 13:46
I read Bloomberg's apology as "I'm a whore who will do anything to turn a trick."
That seems really disrespectful to whores.
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

Post by Ellie » 17 Nov 2019, 20:45

PRESIDENT BUTT! PRESIDENT BUTT
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

Post by Number 6 » 17 Nov 2019, 20:56

Aresen wrote:
17 Nov 2019, 18:40
Wasn't Truman a haberdasher before becoming a senator and then FDR's VP?
He was co-owner of a Haberdashery in downtown Kansas City.
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

Post by JD » 18 Nov 2019, 10:29

Warren wrote:
17 Nov 2019, 13:49
The timing of if is really bad. Oh this thing I did as mayor isn't playing well with the national Democrat constituency. Well I'll just say I'm sorry.
Yeah, both NYC tabloids took him to task today - the Post with "FLOP ON FRISK" (good one, that) and the Daily News with "NOW HE'S SORRY!"
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

Post by JasonL » 18 Nov 2019, 11:07

Every new thing E Warren says makes me dislike her more. I was trying to talk myself into this thing like "ok look she wants to move the discussion and to win she will propose a lot of stuff and say it's all funded by Bill Gates and no new taxes on anyone but she is actually policy savvy and will have taxes built in to pay for stuff way more than she suggests." So it started with "the wealth tax will pay for everything'. Then it became "the higher 6% wealth tax will pay for everything". Then it became "there's also this Employer Medicare Tax that will be levied per payroll head but is definitely not a tax on labor". Now add in 35% corp tax rates putting the US near the top of the world in rates. A tax on all sales of stocks and bonds (oh I can't wait till that hits the fund performance in people's 401ks), eliminate the ability to accelerate capital investment depreciation, blah blah blah.

I mean, look at this example:

https://taxfoundation.org/elizabeth-war ... 0-percent/

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Re: Dancing With the Dems

Post by Jake » 18 Nov 2019, 11:14

thoreau wrote:
17 Nov 2019, 17:50
There's nothing wrong with being the mayor of a small city. But it isn't sufficient qualification to be president.
I don't know that there is sufficient qualification to be president. But a mayor of a small city (hopefully) has something that ex-congressional or ex-senatorial candidates lack: experience in actually trying to get problems solved, as opposed to just having experience maintaining problems while bloviating about how the other side sucks and is stopping you from doing anything useful.

Right now, my major party favorites (with the obvious caveat that I'm using "favorite" pretty damned loosely) are Weld from Team Red and Buttigieg from Team Blue.
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

Post by Warren » 18 Nov 2019, 11:16

JasonL wrote:
18 Nov 2019, 11:07
Every new thing E Warren says makes me dislike her more. I was trying to talk myself into this thing like "ok look she wants to move the discussion and to win she will propose a lot of stuff and say it's all funded by Bill Gates and no new taxes on anyone but she is actually policy savvy and will have taxes built in to pay for stuff way more than she suggests." So it started with "the wealth tax will pay for everything'. Then it became "the higher 6% wealth tax will pay for everything". Then it became "there's also this Employer Medicare Tax that will be levied per payroll head but is definitely not a tax on labor". Now add in 35% corp tax rates putting the US near the top of the world in rates. A tax on all sales of stocks and bonds (oh I can't wait till that hits the fund performance in people's 401ks), eliminate the ability to accelerate capital investment depreciation, blah blah blah.

I mean, look at this example:

https://taxfoundation.org/elizabeth-war ... 0-percent/
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

Post by nicole » 18 Nov 2019, 11:26

JasonL wrote:
18 Nov 2019, 11:07
Every new thing E Warren says makes me dislike her more. I was trying to talk myself into this thing like "ok look she wants to move the discussion and to win she will propose a lot of stuff and say it's all funded by Bill Gates and no new taxes on anyone but she is actually policy savvy and will have taxes built in to pay for stuff way more than she suggests." So it started with "the wealth tax will pay for everything'. Then it became "the higher 6% wealth tax will pay for everything". Then it became "there's also this Employer Medicare Tax that will be levied per payroll head but is definitely not a tax on labor". Now add in 35% corp tax rates putting the US near the top of the world in rates. A tax on all sales of stocks and bonds (oh I can't wait till that hits the fund performance in people's 401ks), eliminate the ability to accelerate capital investment depreciation, blah blah blah.

I mean, look at this example:

https://taxfoundation.org/elizabeth-war ... 0-percent/
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

Post by JasonL » 18 Nov 2019, 11:30

oh gawd I don't know. Biden? Butt? I was really trying to talk myself into E Warren not being as bad as she seemed because of primaries, but ... every specific proposal is worse than the last. Like, I believe there is room in the US for higher tax rates on a broad base, a VAT for example, to pay for some things people may want. I believe there is a need to go after the healthcare system and there are better and worse ways to do that. The real discussion is how much broad based taxation and increase in price levels for what level of increased government services. I feel like the neoliberals are the only ones even close to that conversation. This is why I never end up voting. I hate trump at about .8 Standard Thoreaus (ST) and I think beyond trump himself I think the coalition of Trumpism needs to be handed a loss so everyone doesn't learn "welp this is how you win now". I believe that at about .95 ST.

But the donkeys make is haaaarrd. They are so dumb about everything. They are running away from the nordic model because they can't sell it to their base as it actually exists. They are cannibalizing themselves with wokeness. They are having challenging questions of E Warren asking why she isn't a socialist is she a tool of late stage capitalism. They are dumb children.

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Re: Dancing With the Dems

Post by Hugh Akston » 18 Nov 2019, 11:32

Jake wrote:
18 Nov 2019, 11:14
thoreau wrote:
17 Nov 2019, 17:50
There's nothing wrong with being the mayor of a small city. But it isn't sufficient qualification to be president.
I don't know that there is sufficient qualification to be president. But a mayor of a small city (hopefully) has something that ex-congressional or ex-senatorial candidates lack: experience in actually trying to get problems solved, as opposed to just having experience maintaining problems while bloviating about how the other side sucks and is stopping you from doing anything useful.

Right now, my major party favorites (with the obvious caveat that I'm using "favorite" pretty damned loosely) are Weld from Team Red and Buttigieg from Team Blue.
Yeah executive experience at any level seems like a better qualifier than being a camera whore congresscritter. And it probably goes without saying that 'having your tantrums managed by people who are riding until your ship dips below the waterline' doesn't count as executive experience.
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 18 Nov 2019, 11:44

I'll give voice to the Problem That Dare Not Speak It's Name and just say that America is probably not ready for a homosexual president. Even if that were not so, Buttigieg is too young and doesn't have the enthusiastic support of African Americans. Yes, at one level, being the chief executive of a smallish city is still the same sort of job as being President of the United States, but as I've argued in different contexts, at some point a quantitative difference becomes a qualitative difference.

Would he be a worse president than Trump? Of course not. Could he do the job? Sure. Being the head of anything is largely about having good people who do know their jobs and being able to lead them to achieve whatever your organizational goals may be. But let's not pretend he wouldn't have a very steep learning curve.

So my problems with Mayor Pete aren't that I don't think he could do the job; they're that I don't think he can get the job. He'd make a perfectly cromulent VP candidate choice, though, as long as the candidate, himself, wasn't a moderate liberal white male.

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Re: Dancing With the Dems

Post by Shem » 18 Nov 2019, 12:53

JasonL wrote:
18 Nov 2019, 11:30
oh gawd I don't know. Biden? Butt? I was really trying to talk myself into E Warren not being as bad as she seemed because of primaries, but ... every specific proposal is worse than the last. Like, I believe there is room in the US for higher tax rates on a broad base, a VAT for example, to pay for some things people may want. I believe there is a need to go after the healthcare system and there are better and worse ways to do that. The real discussion is how much broad based taxation and increase in price levels for what level of increased government services. I feel like the neoliberals are the only ones even close to that conversation. This is why I never end up voting. I hate trump at about .8 Standard Thoreaus (ST) and I think beyond trump himself I think the coalition of Trumpism needs to be handed a loss so everyone doesn't learn "welp this is how you win now". I believe that at about .95 ST.

But the donkeys make is haaaarrd. They are so dumb about everything. They are running away from the nordic model because they can't sell it to their base as it actually exists. They are cannibalizing themselves with wokeness. They are having challenging questions of E Warren asking why she isn't a socialist is she a tool of late stage capitalism. They are dumb children.
She's trying to put Sanders down while still maintaining her "I'm the person with plans you can actually assess" schtick. Which was a pretty big error on her part; she should have gone after Biden first, who is absolutely vulnerable, and whose takedown will give a huge boost to whoever is seen doing it. On the other hand, it's not like anyone who matters is paying attention at the moment, so if you have to have an internecine squabble, there are worse times to have it.

I'm increasingly sold on the idea that paying attention until a month or so before you actually vote on something is pointless and counterproductive.
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

Post by Warren » 18 Nov 2019, 13:29

I give considerable credit to the technological determinism school. And for that reason, I've determined that this election ain't gonna amount to diddly squat in shaping the US economy no matter who wins. Game 2 move 37, is going to sweep politics into the sea for the foreseeable future.
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

Post by Aresen » 18 Nov 2019, 15:19

The only thing that gives me hope about Elizabeth Warren getting the nomination is that she'd never get any of her proposals through Congress. Probably not even the House.
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

Post by Hugh Akston » 18 Nov 2019, 15:56

Uncle Joe wrote:"The truth of the matter is, there's not nearly been enough evidence that has been acquired as to whether or not it is a gateway drug," Biden said. "It's a debate, and I want a lot more before I legalize it nationally. I want to make sure we know a lot more about the science behind it."
Props to BI for calling bullshit in the same article
National organizations have not been as suspicious of marijuana as Biden has, however, and have found no solid evidence to support the claim that using marijuana leads to the use of harder drugs. A 1999 Institute of Medicine report said marijuana "typically precedes rather than follows initiation of other illicit drug use" but "does not appear to be a gateway drug to the extent that it is the cause or even that it is the most significant predictor of serious drug abuse; that is, care must be taken not to attribute cause to association."

The National Institute on Drug Abuse says research shows "the majority of people who use marijuana do not go on to use other, 'harder' substances," and drug use can be affected by numerous other biological and environmental factors.
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

Post by Aresen » 18 Nov 2019, 16:00

Hugh Akston wrote:
18 Nov 2019, 15:56
Uncle Joe wrote:"The truth of the matter is, there's not nearly been enough evidence that has been acquired as to whether or not it is a gateway drug," Biden said. "It's a debate, and I want a lot more before I legalize it nationally. I want to make sure we know a lot more about the science behind it."
76 years old and he's still cribbing others' notes.
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