Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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JasonL
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by JasonL »

The comparison everyone wants is Sweden but they have no red bars for infections reported at all while inferring 150k+ daily infections?
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Jennifer
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by Jennifer »

Pham Nuwen wrote: 14 Apr 2020, 10:39 Man. Those press conferences by Trump are getting really really weird. Like even weirder than last month.

Yesterday's Trump meltdown in lieu of answering the question about what he did during the month of February was especially facepalm-worthy ... or would have been were I not already calloused by nearly four years of such presidential inanity and Republican enabling.

ETA: Added Pham's quote, as I initially did not notice Jason's just above mine.
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Jennifer
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by Jennifer »

JasonL wrote: 14 Apr 2020, 10:43 The comparison everyone wants is Sweden but they have no red bars for infections reported at all while inferring 150k+ daily infections?
I don't understand why people keep holding up Sweden as a good example -- specifically an example why we all could remain "open" rather than locking down and limiting public gatherings -- when the worldometer stats consistently show Sweden's covid-19 death rate per one million members of its population is vastly higher than anywhere else in Scandinavia.

As of just before 1 in the afternoon, eastern time, April 14, Finland has 12 people dead for every one million; Norway has 26 dead per million; Denmark 52; and Sweden 102. (The USA currently is at 74.)

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by Eric the .5b »

I think Sweden is just a reflexive choice for Blue reporters and writers.

Latvia, of all places, is closer to a gold standard.
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Jennifer
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by Jennifer »

Eric the .5b wrote: 14 Apr 2020, 15:00 I think Sweden is just a reflexive choice for Blue reporters and writers.

FWIW, most of the people I've seen holding up Sweden as a model in this pandemic tend to be more of the team red (or at least team "Not officially red, but somehow find blues far more worthy of complaining about even in this Time of Trump") type. Most of the Blue people I know all support the social distancing/quarantine thing, with a couple who think it doesn't go far enough.
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by Eric the .5b »

Jennifer wrote: 14 Apr 2020, 17:13
Eric the .5b wrote: 14 Apr 2020, 15:00 I think Sweden is just a reflexive choice for Blue reporters and writers.

FWIW, most of the people I've seen holding up Sweden as a model in this pandemic tend to be more of the team red (or at least team "Not officially red, but somehow find blues far more worthy of complaining about even in this Time of Trump") type. Most of the Blue people I know all support the social distancing/quarantine thing, with a couple who think it doesn't go far enough.
Then, I think you have your answer.
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dbcooper
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by dbcooper »

Why the fuck is Science publishing garbage simple exponential growth models?

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/ ... 3.full.pdf
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Jennifer
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by Jennifer »

Eric the .5b wrote: 14 Apr 2020, 17:26
Jennifer wrote: 14 Apr 2020, 17:13
Eric the .5b wrote: 14 Apr 2020, 15:00 I think Sweden is just a reflexive choice for Blue reporters and writers.

FWIW, most of the people I've seen holding up Sweden as a model in this pandemic tend to be more of the team red (or at least team "Not officially red, but somehow find blues far more worthy of complaining about even in this Time of Trump") type. Most of the Blue people I know all support the social distancing/quarantine thing, with a couple who think it doesn't go far enough.
Then, I think you have your answer.
Huh? I may have been unclear regarding what my question was, then -- specifically, I don't understand why so many anti-lockdown people are holding up Sweden as a grand example of how well countries without lockdowns are doing, when Sweden is doing terribly compared to the rest of Scandinavia and multiple other countries.
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by Eric the .5b »

Jennifer wrote: 14 Apr 2020, 20:41
Eric the .5b wrote: 14 Apr 2020, 17:26
Jennifer wrote: 14 Apr 2020, 17:13
Eric the .5b wrote: 14 Apr 2020, 15:00 I think Sweden is just a reflexive choice for Blue reporters and writers.

FWIW, most of the people I've seen holding up Sweden as a model in this pandemic tend to be more of the team red (or at least team "Not officially red, but somehow find blues far more worthy of complaining about even in this Time of Trump") type. Most of the Blue people I know all support the social distancing/quarantine thing, with a couple who think it doesn't go far enough.
Then, I think you have your answer.
Huh? I may have been unclear regarding what my question was, then -- specifically, I don't understand why so many anti-lockdown people are holding up Sweden as a grand example of how well countries without lockdowns are doing, when Sweden is doing terribly compared to the rest of Scandinavia and multiple other countries.
Because die-hard Reds don't care about inconvenient facts, to an astonishing degree. The fact that Sweden was not pursuing anything was convenient; the fact that this had terrible results was inconvenient. So the first gets mentioned and the second does not.
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dbcooper
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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Slip inside a sleeping bag.
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Kwix
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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Hugh Akston wrote: 09 Apr 2020, 20:07 We really need a new shrugging emoji with Trumps face on it
Trump conceded to CNN's Jim Acosta that there will not be mass coronavirus testing for all Americans when the country goes back to work.
"We want to have it and we're going to see if we have it. Do you need it? No. Is it a nice thing to do? Yes. We're talking about 325 million people and that's not gonna happen, as you can imagine, and it would never happen with anyone else, either," the President said. "Other countries do it, but they do it in a limited form. We'll probably be the leader of the pack."
We already are leader of the pack, chief.
Ahahahahaha... I see this post 6 days after it's posted. Even more "leader".
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Kwix
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by Kwix »

4 dead? I hate to admit I still trust the numbers from Hong Kong.
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Kwix
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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For the trifecta and ban hammer:
Covid sucks. Covid will kill a fair number of people, perhaps people I care for dearly (both of my parents are in their 80s). Even so, I feel the long term effects of this "lockdown" will hurt us as a populace more. This should be behind the veil but I strong enough about it that it's not.

Why yes I've had too much vemouth tonight, why do you ask?
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Jennifer
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by Jennifer »

Kwix wrote: 15 Apr 2020, 02:49 For the trifecta and ban hammer:
Covid sucks. Covid will kill a fair number of people, perhaps people I care for dearly (both of my parents are in their 80s). Even so, I feel the long term effects of this "lockdown" will hurt us as a populace more. This should be behind the veil but I strong enough about it that it's not.

Why yes I've had too much vemouth tonight, why do you ask?
Even if we'd see the exact same number of covid-19 deaths with or without lockdowns, as I understand it the idea is to space them out ("flatten the curve") to avoid overwhelming medical staff, thus resulting in non-covid-19 deaths that result because people suffering from ordinary illnesses or injuries cannot get medical care.

(And if you want to get really nitpicky -- what'll ultimately harm the populace isn't even the lockdown so much as the shitty governmental/societal mismanagement of it.)
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Pham Nuwen
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by Pham Nuwen »

I mean any response would be mismanaged. It's the nature of the beast.
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by Eric the .5b »

Pham Nuwen wrote: 15 Apr 2020, 16:14 I mean any response would be mismanaged. It's the nature of the beast.
Sure, but there are degrees of mismanagement. Take Sweden, which may end up with 5x or more deaths per capita compared to the US.
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Shem
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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Hugh Akston
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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So do healthy people need to wear masks or what? The CDC says yes, the WHO says no, and super macho quarantine strongman says wearing masks can prevent your teeth getting kicked in by the NYPD.
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Jadagul
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by Jadagul »

Research is unclear on the subject, but it's probably? helpful.
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Twba
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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Twba wrote: 28 Mar 2020, 14:08 The Donald and Michigan's governor were made for each other.
I used that as an example of a tyrant with no medical training telling doctors how to do their jobs. I did not expect anyone to act as if President OrangeManBad had nominated hydroxychloroquine to the Supreme Court.

So, that governor sure has done a great job the past few days.
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Pham Nuwen
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by Pham Nuwen »

So ... yeah. The chloroquine stuff fucks with your qt interval. Good luck with that stuff.
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by lunchstealer »

Twba wrote: 16 Apr 2020, 01:41
Twba wrote: 28 Mar 2020, 14:08 The Donald and Michigan's governor were made for each other.
I used that as an example of a tyrant with no medical training telling doctors how to do their jobs.
Fuck I don't have any medical training and I'd tell doctors to stop fucking prescribing antibiotics to people with colds. I knew a bunch of doctor larvae as an undergrad, and your average family practitioner is a fine person but is also totally willing to copy answers to get their degree, and the now-I'm-in-business-and-need-to-make-my-next-boat-payment equivalent to copying answers is getting five star yelp reviews for prescribing shit that your patients want even if you know damned well that it will do fuck all for them and will eventually be bad for society, whether it be by using up stocks of lupus medications or by contributing to antibiotic resistance.

I've had a lot of doctors and respected about four of them.
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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I believe in letting adults buy and use absolutely any medication they want. Doesn't mean anybody else should pay for it, or take responsibility for them using shit that they shouldn't have used. But you should have the right to put any medication you want into your body.

Except antibiotics. Darwin says you gotta lock that shit down.
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Jadagul
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by Jadagul »

The problem with medical doctors is that so many of them think they're real doctors.

Which is to say, they don't actually have training in evaluating research, but they're called on to do that anyway, and think they know how.
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by lunchstealer »

thoreau wrote: 16 Apr 2020, 03:39 I believe in letting adults buy and use absolutely any medication they want. Doesn't mean anybody else should pay for it, or take responsibility for them using shit that they shouldn't have used. But you should have the right to put any medication you want into your body.

Except antibiotics. Darwin says you gotta lock that shit down.
Yeah but when you get a million panicky wildebeasts clamoring for their grade-inflated GPs to prescribe them the Magic Pill To Make It All Go Away the problem is not whether they put lupus drugs into their bodies but whether they completely fuck the supply chain for lupus patients to get their lupus drugs.

As Pham said, methotrexate is bad shit, and making lupus patients switch to that because a bunch of lazy and irresponsible MDs wanted to pad their Yelp and MDgrade ratings by making it rain scrips for stupid Trump meds is maybe a reasonable use case for a governor to exercise some extra power in a public health emergency.
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