That's Not What the Song's About!

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tr0g
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Re: That's Not What the Song's About!

Post by tr0g »

Isn't "Smoke Two Joints" the appropriate Sublime song to sit around and toke up to?
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Re: That's Not What the Song's About!

Post by Hugh Akston »

Sublime is the musical equivalent of whatever dumbass thing stupid people prop up as a cultural touchstone that betrays their general ignorance and lack of refinement. It's not just that their music is awful (though it is), but that the brand has endured as a tribal signifier long past the point where the band has literallyjoebiden died. Applebees is bad, but nobody is wearing an Applebees teeshirt outside of Applebees except the guy who is walking to his job at Applebees wondering to himself how he ended up this way and whether a whole bottle of sleeping pills would really do it. But you guys people actually buy and wear Sublime teeshirts in public. In 2014. If you challenge them on it, some of those people will go to the mat to defend Sublime as musicians and as exemplars of a lifestyle where you make shitty pop music and then die of a smack overdose.

I'm not sure if there is a non-Sublime equivalent of Sublime. Maybe that Calvin decal who pees on things.
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Re: That's Not What the Song's About!

Post by dbcooper »

:D

*applause*
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tr0g
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Re: That's Not What the Song's About!

Post by tr0g »

Hugh Akston wrote:Sublime is the musical equivalent of whatever dumbass thing stupid people prop up as a cultural touchstone that betrays their general ignorance and lack of refinement. It's not just that their music is awful (though it is), but that the brand has endured as a tribal signifier long past the point where the band has literallyjoebiden died. Applebees is bad, but nobody is wearing an Applebees teeshirt outside of Applebees except the guy who is walking to his job at Applebees wondering to himself how he ended up this way and whether a whole bottle of sleeping pills would really do it. But you guys people actually buy and wear Sublime teeshirts in public. In 2014. If you challenge them on it, some of those people will go to the mat to defend Sublime as musicians and as exemplars of a lifestyle where you make shitty pop music and then die of a smack overdose.

I'm not sure if there is a non-Sublime equivalent of Sublime. Maybe that Calvin decal who pees on things.
Excellent work, Hugh.
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Re: That's Not What the Song's About!

Post by pistoffnick »

Dear Hugh,

Your talents are being wasted. Please quit your job and write.

Thank you,
Pistoffnick
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Re: That's Not What the Song's About!

Post by lunchstealer »

And I was just going to suggest that they were the tribal armband of 90s crap-rock. Hugh did it better.
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Re: That's Not What the Song's About!

Post by lunchstealer »

JasonL wrote:Back in the bygone bygone when I had to listen to terrestrial radio in the car, one of three stations was basically the Sublime station. Every other song all day every day. They were meh when I first heard them. They are now sub meh and kind of rage inducing. It isn't their fault.
Don't be hard on yourself. It can be their fault, too. If they hadn't been shitting out such shitty suburban faux-reggae, they would never have gotten overplayed by hack station programmers. Just imagine the good that would've been done had they moved the whole OD on smack thing up about 10 years. And managed to have Sugar Ray die in the same overdose, somehow.
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Re: That's Not What the Song's About!

Post by dhex »

+1 hugh.

and now i'm having sublime-based flashbacks. thanks guys.
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Re: That's Not What the Song's About!

Post by Warren »

I have never heard of Sublime prior to this thread.
INNOCENCE :D INNOCENCE
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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: That's Not What the Song's About!

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

Warren wrote:I have never heard of Sublime prior to this thread.
INNOCENCE :D INNOCENCE
I Frolic in thine meadow. ♫La da dee dee♫
Same here. And I, for one, think going from ignorance to indifference without any intermediary interest is sublime.
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Re: That's Not What the Song's About!

Post by tr0g »

Warren wrote:I have never heard of Sublime prior to this thread.
INNOCENCE :D INNOCENCE
I Frolic in thine meadow. ♫La da dee dee♫
Ellie's quote in my sig seems appropriate here.

But If I'm going to murder someone, I'm going to have a far, far better reason (excuse?) than Sublime.
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Re: That's Not What the Song's About!

Post by JasonL »

Hugh Akston wrote:Sublime is the musical equivalent of whatever dumbass thing stupid people prop up as a cultural touchstone that betrays their general ignorance and lack of refinement. It's not just that their music is awful (though it is), but that the brand has endured as a tribal signifier long past the point where the band has literallyjoebiden died. Applebees is bad, but nobody is wearing an Applebees teeshirt outside of Applebees except the guy who is walking to his job at Applebees wondering to himself how he ended up this way and whether a whole bottle of sleeping pills would really do it. But you guys people actually buy and wear Sublime teeshirts in public. In 2014. If you challenge them on it, some of those people will go to the mat to defend Sublime as musicians and as exemplars of a lifestyle where you make shitty pop music and then die of a smack overdose.

I'm not sure if there is a non-Sublime equivalent of Sublime. Maybe that Calvin decal who pees on things.
This is pretty great Hugh.
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Re: That's Not What the Song's About!

Post by Dangerman »

lunchstealer wrote:And I was just going to suggest that they were the tribal armband of 90s crap-rock. Hugh did it better.
If Hugh's post ever gets deleted, this post is looking at a promotion. Lots more work, not much more money.
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Re: That's Not What the Song's About!

Post by Number 6 »

Warren, you're going to have to explain your take on "Sympathy for the Devil" if you want me on board. The only way I can read it that way is to presume it's written from a gnostic perspective.
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Re: That's Not What the Song's About!

Post by Taktix® »

Number 6 wrote:Warren, you're going to have to explain your take on "Sympathy for the Devil" if you want me on board. The only way I can read it that way is to presume it's written from a gnostic perspective.
Me too.

Also, seeing as the lyrics clearly say "just call me Lucifer," you might have the cards stacked against you, sir...
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Re: That's Not What the Song's About!

Post by Warren »

Taktix® wrote:
Number 6 wrote:Warren, you're going to have to explain your take on "Sympathy for the Devil" if you want me on board. The only way I can read it that way is to presume it's written from a gnostic perspective.
Me too.

Also, seeing as the lyrics clearly say "just call me Lucifer," you might have the cards stacked against you, sir...
On the contrary. You omitted the preceding lines. While there are other indicators in the song, this verse clinches it.
Just as every cop is a criminal
And all the sinners saints
As heads is tails
Just call me Lucifer
Cause I'm in need of some restraint
Last edited by Warren on 07 Jan 2014, 15:16, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: That's Not What the Song's About!

Post by Taktix® »

Warren wrote:
Taktix® wrote:
Number 6 wrote:Warren, you're going to have to explain your take on "Sympathy for the Devil" if you want me on board. The only way I can read it that way is to presume it's written from a gnostic perspective.
Me too.

Also, seeing as the lyrics clearly say "just call me Lucifer," you might have the cards stacked against you, sir...
On the contrary. You omitted the preceding lines. While there are other indicators in the song, this verse clinches it.
Just as every cop is a criminal
And all the sinners saints
As heads is tails
Just call me Lucifer
Cause I'm in need of some restraint
I don't get it.

From the perspective of the Devil, all cops are criminals, all sinners are saints, etc...
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Re: That's Not What the Song's About!

Post by dbcooper »

I think Warren is suggesting that everything in that verse is its opposite, so lucifer = god (or an archangel?) in that context?
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Re: That's Not What the Song's About!

Post by thoreau »

dbcooper wrote:I think Warren is suggesting that everything in that verse is its opposite, so lucifer = god (or an archangel?) in that context?
Of course, Lucifer means "Shining One." So this guy describes these dark deeds and then says "As heads is tails just call me Shining One."
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Re: That's Not What the Song's About!

Post by Taktix® »

dbcooper wrote:I think Warren is suggesting that everything in that verse is its opposite, so lucifer = god (or an archangel?) in that context?
No, I get that.

Another way of interpreting it is that everything is reversed from the Devil's perspective, so evil is good, etc. In addition, the rest of the song has the persona taking credit for what we would call evil acts (religious wars, Germany's aggression during WWII) PLUS the members of the band who wrote the song saying it's from the view of the devil, PLUS the song is called Sympathy for the Devil, and I conclude that the song is being sung from the perspective of the Devil.

Just sayin'...
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Re: That's Not What the Song's About!

Post by thoreau »

It may also be that that one line is not the strongest line in the song, and isn't perfectly symmetric with the structure of the rest of the verse.
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Re: That's Not What the Song's About!

Post by Warren »

EDIT
Some of the other indicators.
The Title:
The song catalogs atrocities and associates the singer with them. How would that generate sympathy? Because the sympathy is not due the singer. It is due his nemesis who usually gets the blame for such things while God gets credit for the good things, and yet is just as, indeed more, culpable.

But what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game
:
Again, the Devil's game is not puzzling. The Devil is evil and he does evil. The Christian God however is... well, let's just say "puzzling". I'll just summarize with "He's an all powerful and good, but he allows evil to happen". If you want a more thorough and pertinent exploration, I can point you to some Christoffer Hitchens videos.

The song not only changes context but gains meaning with the revelation of the singer's true identity. Consider the refrain beseeching the listener to "guess my name" for instance.

I can't agree with where the TV Tropes post takes this. I simply think the song is a covert dissection of the self contraction inherent in the Christian mythos. Rather well executed at that.
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Re: That's Not What the Song's About!

Post by Warren »

Taktix® wrote:
dbcooper wrote:I think Warren is suggesting that everything in that verse is its opposite, so lucifer = god (or an archangel?) in that context?
No, I get that.

Another way of interpreting it is that everything is reversed from the Devil's perspective, so evil is good, etc. In addition, the rest of the song has the persona taking credit for what we would call evil acts (religious wars, Germany's aggression during WWII) PLUS the members of the band who wrote the song saying it's from the view of the devil, PLUS the song is called Sympathy for the Devil, and I conclude that the song is being sung from the perspective of the Devil.

Just sayin'...
Yeah no. It's "as heads is tails just call me Lucifer" Head:tails - I:Lucifer The meaning is quite clear.
PLUS taking credit for acts of evil is not sympathetic
Of course the band says it's the devil. Their tongues are planted firmly in their cheeks. It would completely ruin the joke if they explained it.... oh shit.
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Re: That's Not What the Song's About!

Post by Taktix® »

I guess it's possible. All n' all, I just don't think Mick Jagger had the capacity for something that cryptic.

Occam's razor and all that...

ETA: So I decided to Google this and this is the first link I clicked: http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum ... 584834/pg1

I can't get over how horrific this guy's avatar is:

Image

There's also a whole lotta crazy in the comments. Goat's Head Soup? WTF?!?
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Re: That's Not What the Song's About!

Post by Warren »

Taktix® wrote:I guess it's possible. All n' all, I just don't think Mick Jagger had the capacity for something that cryptic.
You may be right. Serendipity then.
There's also a whole lotta crazy in the comments. Goat's Head Soup? WTF?!?
Yeah I've gone a few rounds of this before and it can go south pretty quickly. But listen to the song my way and see if you don't think it works so much better than the other way. From my experience most people don't. But I really think it does.
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