Music for the Masses

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Re: Music for the Masses

Post by Highway » 12 Nov 2019, 14:06

I don't care for pieces that are a whole orchestra of strings sawing away for some interminable time. When I can find it, I much prefer a wind ensemble arrangement.
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Re: Music for the Masses

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 12 Nov 2019, 15:26

I like good jazz piano, e.g., Thelonious Monk, Bill Evans, and I like most classical piano though I'd have to say that I prefer strings for chamber music. I don't much care for guitars in jazz or for too much brass of any sort in rock. I don't like the accordion unless it's Weird Al or I'm sitting in a real French bistro.

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Re: Music for the Masses

Post by Warren » 12 Nov 2019, 15:36

Don't like guitars in jazz :shock:
Dude. What sins are you punishing yourself for?
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Re: Music for the Masses

Post by dead_elvis » 12 Nov 2019, 16:47

Aresen wrote:
12 Nov 2019, 13:10


I know this sounds weird, but does anyone else have similar opinions about the piano or other instrument?
I used to feel this way about the piano, mostly because I feel like there's only so many colors even a good pianist can get from the mechanisms involved (though I would not say this in earshot of a pianist, who would no doubt take issue). So to my ears everything sounded too homogenous. By contrast, I once heard Schubert's Arpeggione sonata with guitar instead of piano and I thought it was amazing because each guitar string has a different sound so the different lines came across so much clearer. But as with a lot of things I think the subtleties that make one appreciate something can take a lot of education and I certainly appreciate it more now than when I was 18; having the privilege to work directly with pianists and coaching with their teachers in school and hearing the process of polishing up performances up close made a huge difference in appreciating the instrument, what it can do and what is required of the performer. I am totally jealous of their ability to play music in such a total way, to be melody and accompaniment and everything in between all at once, and the brain power required to master the subtlety involved to organize all that puts me in awe.

I also get the Chopin dislike, and I think repertoire is partly a reason for my not always being thrilled with the piano- Chopin, Liszt, Grieg Concerto, so much of their most played rep is in a middle romantic style that I find generic sounding. On piano I'm more happy with Beethoven and Brahms or more modern things like Petrushka or something by Shostakovich or Prokofiev.
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Re: Music for the Masses

Post by Hugh Akston » 12 Nov 2019, 17:02

Piano is versatile because it can be loud or quiet depending on the context. And it tends to play more in terms of chords than flow.

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Re: Music for the Masses

Post by Warren » 12 Nov 2019, 17:48

dead_elvis wrote:
12 Nov 2019, 16:47
I feel like there's only so many colors even a good pianist can get from the mechanisms involved (though I would not say this in earshot of a pianist, who would no doubt take issue). So to my ears everything sounded too homogenous.
You need to listen to better piano players. The piano mechanisms evolved over centuries to become the most versatile and sophisticated instrument of them all. At least until Chuck Berry invented electricity.
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Re: Music for the Masses

Post by dead_elvis » 12 Nov 2019, 18:47

Warren wrote:
12 Nov 2019, 17:48
dead_elvis wrote:
12 Nov 2019, 16:47
I feel like there's only so many colors even a good pianist can get from the mechanisms involved (though I would not say this in earshot of a pianist, who would no doubt take issue). So to my ears everything sounded too homogenous.
You need to listen to better piano players. The piano mechanisms evolved over centuries to become the most versatile and sophisticated instrument of them all. At least until Chuck Berry invented electricity.
At the end of the day the pianist is throwing a felt covered hammer at a fixed point on a string. They can pull off amazing tricks with just that and the two pedals, but they are still limited to what they can control with a key mechanism, which is basically hardness and speed, and the soft pedal can alter the number of strings the hammer hits. They have no control over the hardness of the felt, or the distance from the soundboard, or an option to play the same note on a different string with a different tone. A string player can vary many more factors to shade the sound: distance from the bridge, angle of the bow (on multiple planes), bow speed and pressure, vibrato (fast/slow and narrow/wide), and which string they play a passage on. Even with the same bow pressure something as subtle as applying it with the weight of the bow arm vs. pressure with the fingers shades the sound. Each additional factor increases possibilities exponentially combined with all the others. Guitarists similarly have many more tone shading options.
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Re: Music for the Masses

Post by lunchstealer » 14 Nov 2019, 18:00

Warren wrote:
12 Nov 2019, 15:36
Don't like guitars in jazz :shock:
Dude. What sins are you punishing yourself for?
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Don't get me wrong. Back in the 80s when Sandy was at USC* in the music program, I managed to get to see a lot of great performers who'd come through. I've seen some good guitarists, including once when Bucky and John Pizzarelli played together, and it was a great concert. It's not that it's bad, but... I'm never gonna go buy one of their records, at least not until my Jazz collection is much deeper than it is. I like guitar in most other genres**, but nobody has really grabbed me with it in Jazz.

*again, not the one in LA, the other one. Cocks, not Trojans. The California one is a hat for the South Carolina one. And yes that last is attempting to curry favor with the moderatrix via adolescent humor. fite me.

** To a lesser extent, Classical. I've seen a few classical guitar performances including one by Angel Romero, and they're good, but it's pretty far down my list of priorities in that respect. And these days Classical is pretty far down my list of priorities.
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Re: Music for the Masses

Post by dbcooper » 16 Nov 2019, 10:42

Slip inside a sleeping bag.

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Re: Music for the Masses

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 16 Nov 2019, 12:57

lunchstealer wrote:
14 Nov 2019, 18:00
Warren wrote:
12 Nov 2019, 15:36
Don't like guitars in jazz :shock:
Dude. What sins are you punishing yourself for?
Team DAR.

Don't get me wrong. Back in the 80s when Sandy was at USC* in the music program, I managed to get to see a lot of great performers who'd come through. I've seen some good guitarists, including once when Bucky and John Pizzarelli played together, and it was a great concert. It's not that it's bad, but... I'm never gonna go buy one of their records, at least not until my Jazz collection is much deeper than it is. I like guitar in most other genres**, but nobody has really grabbed me with it in Jazz.

*again, not the one in LA, the other one. Cocks, not Trojans. The California one is a hat for the South Carolina one. And yes that last is attempting to curry favor with the moderatrix via adolescent humor. fite me.

** To a lesser extent, Classical. I've seen a few classical guitar performances including one by Angel Romero, and they're good, but it's pretty far down my list of priorities in that respect. And these days Classical is pretty far down my list of priorities.
In my own case, I suspect my tastes vis a vis which instrument is being used in which genre of music is as much about, for lack of a better phrase, my early imprinting in those genres. I'm not saying I don't think, say, Charlie Christian, Django Reinhardt or Wes Montgomery aren't great musicians, but the jazz I first fell in love with was played by saxophone, trumpet, piano, upright bass and drums. Benny Goodman was an excellent jazz swing and classical musician and Eddie Daniels is an excellent jazz clarinetist but, as with guitar, it always sounds more like a novelty to me than my admittedly arbitrary sense of what jazz is supposed to sound like. Similarly, I very rarely like jazz groups above a sextet. Swing is something you dance to or something accompanying the singer. *shrug*

Similarly, because guitar is the quintessential rock instrument, I don't much care for classical guitar. Segovia and flamenco guitar impresses me technically but doesn't move me emotionally. One exception is Liona Boyd, whose "A Guitar For Christmas" should be on everyone's holiday music playlist (assuming, of course, one has such a thing) right there along with "A Charlie Brown Christmas" with the Vince Guaraldi Trio.

There are several musical instruments I do not like under any circumstances. Don't bother asking me why, I just don't. Tubas, trombones, pipe organs and bagpipes all make the list. Yes, even during or maybe especially during funerals in the last case. There are probably others; I just can't think of them at the moment.

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Re: Music for the Masses

Post by Andrew » 16 Nov 2019, 22:07

D.A. Ridgely wrote:
16 Nov 2019, 12:57
There are several musical instruments I do not like under any circumstances. Don't bother asking me why, I just don't. Tubas, trombones, pipe organs and bagpipes all make the list. Yes, even during or maybe especially during funerals in the last case. There are probably others; I just can't think of them at the moment.
Even in something like Bach's Passacaglia & Fugue in C minor?
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Re: Music for the Masses

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 16 Nov 2019, 23:31

Andrew wrote:
16 Nov 2019, 22:07
D.A. Ridgely wrote:
16 Nov 2019, 12:57
There are several musical instruments I do not like under any circumstances. Don't bother asking me why, I just don't. Tubas, trombones, pipe organs and bagpipes all make the list. Yes, even during or maybe especially during funerals in the last case. There are probably others; I just can't think of them at the moment.
Even in something like Bach's Passacaglia & Fugue in C minor?
I'm not fond of Baroque in general. I mean, I like the thunderous sound of a massive pipe organ, but would I sit at home and listen to organ music? No.

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Re: Music for the Masses

Post by Jadagul » 23 Nov 2019, 17:11

I actually have discovered that I really like classical guitar, but I've never cared much for guitar in rock.

As a pianist, I do really enjoy piano, but dead_elvis isn't wrong about it having limited colors in a lot of ways. No one ever plays a single-line single-note melody on piano as a first choice, and there's a reason for that. But pianos give you so many options in terms of overall texture that they're by far my favorite solo instrument.

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Re: Music for the Masses

Post by Painboy » 23 Nov 2019, 21:14

Jadagul wrote:
23 Nov 2019, 17:11
I actually have discovered that I really like classical guitar, but I've never cared much for guitar in rock.

As a pianist, I do really enjoy piano, but dead_elvis isn't wrong about it having limited colors in a lot of ways. No one ever plays a single-line single-note melody on piano as a first choice, and there's a reason for that. But pianos give you so many options in terms of overall texture that they're by far my favorite solo instrument.
I love the sound of classical guitar but unfortunately most music people play with it doesn't do anything for me.

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Re: Music for the Masses

Post by Jadagul » 23 Nov 2019, 21:45

Painboy wrote:
23 Nov 2019, 21:14
Jadagul wrote:
23 Nov 2019, 17:11
I actually have discovered that I really like classical guitar, but I've never cared much for guitar in rock.

As a pianist, I do really enjoy piano, but dead_elvis isn't wrong about it having limited colors in a lot of ways. No one ever plays a single-line single-note melody on piano as a first choice, and there's a reason for that. But pianos give you so many options in terms of overall texture that they're by far my favorite solo instrument.
I love the sound of classical guitar but unfortunately most music people play with it doesn't do anything for me.

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Re: Music for the Masses

Post by Painboy » 24 Nov 2019, 17:04

Jadagul wrote:
23 Nov 2019, 21:45
Painboy wrote:
23 Nov 2019, 21:14
Jadagul wrote:
23 Nov 2019, 17:11
I actually have discovered that I really like classical guitar, but I've never cared much for guitar in rock.

As a pianist, I do really enjoy piano, but dead_elvis isn't wrong about it having limited colors in a lot of ways. No one ever plays a single-line single-note melody on piano as a first choice, and there's a reason for that. But pianos give you so many options in terms of overall texture that they're by far my favorite solo instrument.
I love the sound of classical guitar but unfortunately most music people play with it doesn't do anything for me.
Pardon my ignorance but isn't that just an acoustic guitar? I know the strings are different but is that it?

When I think classical guitar I think this kind of stuff.



(Also I'm not much of Beattle's fan, but I appreciate the link.)

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Re: Music for the Masses

Post by Jadagul » 24 Nov 2019, 20:33

He's doing the sort of stuff that's easier on a classical guitar, but he might be doing it on a steel-string.

Mostly just like the chance to show off Tommy Emmanuel videos because the man is terrifying.

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Re: Music for the Masses

Post by Andrew » 27 Nov 2019, 10:46

The retro feeling of this song is interesting: Real Love Baby by Father John Misty (Josh Tillman)

The reverb, backing vocals, guitar, drum sound, droning background sound... it's not quite the Beach Boys, but it's a solid imitation.
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Re: Music for the Masses

Post by dbcooper » 28 Nov 2019, 04:09

Roger Nichols and Wendel: The Pioneer of Digital Drum Replacement
Story goes... One day in 1978, Donald Fagen of Steely Dan was not happy with the drum tracks they were recording. So he turned to his engineer and said, "Can't you make a f---ing machine that would be perfect?" Roger Nichols said, "So, ummmmm... Sure!" And that's how a "robot drummer" named Wendel was born.
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Re: Music for the Masses

Post by Andrew » 08 Dec 2019, 09:15

Have you ever wondered what cocaine looks like in human form? Wonder no longer, because Steve Walsh of Kansas has you covered:

Kansas performing "Carry On, Wayward Son" at Canada Jam 1978
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Re: Music for the Masses

Post by dbcooper » 08 Dec 2019, 10:19

Andrew wrote:
08 Dec 2019, 09:15
Have you ever wondered what cocaine looks like in human form? Wonder no longer, because Steve Walsh of Kansas has you covered:

Kansas performing "Carry On, Wayward Son" at Canada Jam 1978
Oh yeah that video rules.
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Re: Music for the Masses

Post by dbcooper » 09 Dec 2019, 14:40



Loved that track for a decade at least, but had no idea that Zappa played the guitar on it. Very smooth for 1974.
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Re: Music for the Masses

Post by dbcooper » 10 Dec 2019, 12:59

Slip inside a sleeping bag.

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Re: Music for the Masses

Post by dbcooper » 10 Dec 2019, 13:00

Youtube's algorithm is completely shit now. Absolute dog shit. It just suggests other commercially viable stuff you've listened to. It used to be good.
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Re: Music for the Masses

Post by Hugh Akston » 10 Dec 2019, 13:07

dbcooper wrote:
10 Dec 2019, 13:00
Youtube's algorithm is completely shit now. Absolute dog shit. It just suggests other commercially viable stuff you've listened to. It used to be good.
Do you use Pandora? Their algorithm is pretty good.
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