Star Trek Wankery

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Warren
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by Warren »

Hugh Akston wrote: 16 Oct 2020, 13:28 I'm cautiously optimistic about season 3 of Disco. "
Ha ha ha Good one.

What really?
We need to rebuild the Federation" feels like a relevant story for the moment.
Sure, why not?
The unearned emotional stakes are still there, but that's a symptom of the larger GAoTV 10-episode-season model.
GAoTV? It's certainly not an artifact of the 10 episodes every year and a half model. Plenty of great shows have used that model without resorting to unearned emotional stakes.
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Hugh Akston
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by Hugh Akston »

Warren wrote: 16 Oct 2020, 16:51
The unearned emotional stakes are still there, but that's a symptom of the larger GAoTV 10-episode-season model.
GAoTV? It's certainly not an artifact of the 10 episodes every year and a half model. Plenty of great shows have used that model without resorting to unearned emotional stakes.
Sure, but the heart of Star Trek has always been its little character/relationship moments. There's a lot less room for those in 10 episodes than in 24. I don't know that I've seen a 10-episode-season drama that has managed to really develop the characters in an ensemble cast.
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lunchstealer
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by lunchstealer »

Hugh Akston wrote: 16 Oct 2020, 17:10
Warren wrote: 16 Oct 2020, 16:51
The unearned emotional stakes are still there, but that's a symptom of the larger GAoTV 10-episode-season model.
GAoTV? It's certainly not an artifact of the 10 episodes every year and a half model. Plenty of great shows have used that model without resorting to unearned emotional stakes.
Sure, but the heart of Star Trek has always been its little character/relationship moments. There's a lot less room for those in 10 episodes than in 24. I don't know that I've seen a 10-episode-season drama that has managed to really develop the characters in an ensemble cast.
The Expanse does make some admirable effort in that direction, but yeah it gets tough to do especially when there are so many interweaving plotlines and arcs with characters scattered all across the system and into others. And they have the advantage of working from books that are a little more right-sized for a ten-ep season than GoT.
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Kolohe
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by Kolohe »

This account has a good rundown of tonight's debate
https://twitter.com/realGulDukat?s=09
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex
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Aresen
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by Aresen »

Kolohe wrote: 22 Oct 2020, 22:40 This account has a good rundown of tonight's debate
https://twitter.com/realGulDukat?s=09
That's hilarious.
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dbcooper
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

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I'm partial to this Dukat meme:

Image
Slip inside a sleeping bag.
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dbcooper
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by dbcooper »

In season 3 O'Brien died and was replaced by his future self, and no one gave a shit. Keiko probably yelled at him for being late, and no one from Star Fleet gave a second thought to his sacrifice.
Slip inside a sleeping bag.
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Painboy
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by Painboy »

dbcooper wrote: 24 Oct 2020, 07:13 In season 3 O'Brien died and was replaced by his future self, and no one gave a shit. Keiko probably yelled at him for being late, and no one from Star Fleet gave a second thought to his sacrifice.
The fact that O'Brien wasn't a raving lunatic by the end of the series is a miracle in of itself. Remember he also served 20 years in a virtual prison where he killed his best friend.
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Hugh Akston
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by Hugh Akston »

Screen Shot 2020-11-05 at 2.05.46 PM.png
Screen Shot 2020-11-05 at 2.05.46 PM.png (99.07 KiB) Viewed 751 times
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Warren
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by Warren »

Hugh Akston wrote: 05 Nov 2020, 16:06 Screen Shot 2020-11-05 at 2.05.46 PM.png
No, Tuvok and Neelix don't get a vote because they no longer exist. Only Tuvix wishes matter. Unmaking Tuvix was Captain Janeway's most unpardonable crime.
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lunchstealer
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by lunchstealer »

Warren wrote: 05 Nov 2020, 16:09
Hugh Akston wrote: 05 Nov 2020, 16:06 Screen Shot 2020-11-05 at 2.05.46 PM.png
No, Tuvok and Neelix don't get a vote because they no longer exist. Only Tuvix wishes matter. Unmaking Tuvix was Captain Janeway's most unpardonable crime.
And also her greatest act of love and compassion for everyone not Tuvix, especially viewers.
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Kolohe
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by Kolohe »

Star Trek:Acid Party

https://youtu.be/BZlRt05RY9Y
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex
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Warren
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by Warren »

Kolohe wrote: 09 Nov 2020, 17:21 Star Trek:Acid Party

https://youtu.be/BZlRt05RY9Y
That started out pretty good. Had a kind of "Music From the Hearts of Space" thing going, but the jokey stuff just killed the vibe.
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Kolohe
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by Kolohe »

Warren wrote: 11 Nov 2020, 14:27
Kolohe wrote: 09 Nov 2020, 17:21 Star Trek:Acid Party

https://youtu.be/BZlRt05RY9Y
That started out pretty good. Had a kind of "Music From the Hearts of Space" thing going, but the jokey stuff just killed the vibe.
It’s not something IMO to be watched in one continuous sitting, but rather use the progress slider bar at random.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex
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Shem
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by Shem »

Hugh Akston wrote: 16 Oct 2020, 17:10I don't know that I've seen a 10-episode-season drama that has managed to really develop the characters in an ensemble cast.
Stranger Things season 1 did a really good job of it, I think. Of course, they decided to get lazy and do the "throw in more characters to make stuff happen" route for the next seasons, but season 1 was solid.
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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

Shem wrote: 13 Nov 2020, 23:11
Hugh Akston wrote: 16 Oct 2020, 17:10I don't know that I've seen a 10-episode-season drama that has managed to really develop the characters in an ensemble cast.
Stranger Things season 1 did a really good job of it, I think. Of course, they decided to get lazy and do the "throw in more characters to make stuff happen" route for the next seasons, but season 1 was solid.
I suspect it depends on how long each episode is, too. But, yes, I can think of quite a number of ensemble shows that had well developed characters at the end of thirteen episodes: Off the top of my head, The Wire, Mad Men, Deadwood. But not so much with shorter seasons.

It also depends on how many characters you need to count as an ensemble cast because I can think of quite a few more where there were only, say, five to seven principle characters.
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Hugh Akston
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by Hugh Akston »

Something I've noticed over the past few weeks is that Disco is not an ensemble show. There are a lot of characters and stuff happens to them, but everything revolves around Burnham, and she's usually the one solving the problems. I don't know if it was quite this strong in previous seasons, but this year she's heading into Mary Sue territory.
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by lunchstealer »

I kinda feel like The Expanse has done a pretty good job with 13-ep character development, and the first three seasons were 45-minute-plus-comercials. BSG did okay, too. Not perfect and not universally, but pretty good.

Both are very good by scifi standards.
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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

lunchstealer wrote: 14 Nov 2020, 23:55 I kinda feel like The Expanse has done a pretty good job with 13-ep character development, and the first three seasons were 45-minute-plus-comercials. BSG did okay, too. Not perfect and not universally, but pretty good.

Both are very good by scifi standards.
The Expanse had movie quality special effects its first season. It's actually a testimony to how fast effects have improved and gotten cheaper that it no longer stands out as it first did. My problem with the series at this point, which I understand many would consider a feature and not a bug, is that just as I'm settling in to the overall story arc, those fuckers take a right angle and I've got to start to figure out what the hell's going on all over.
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by Warren »

lunchstealer wrote: 14 Nov 2020, 23:55 I kinda feel like The Expanse has done a pretty good job with 13-ep character development, and the first three seasons were 45-minute-plus-comercials. BSG did okay, too. Not perfect and not universally, but pretty good.

Both are very good by scifi standards.
Huh? Commercials for what?
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lunchstealer
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by lunchstealer »

Warren wrote: 15 Nov 2020, 11:22
lunchstealer wrote: 14 Nov 2020, 23:55 I kinda feel like The Expanse has done a pretty good job with 13-ep character development, and the first three seasons were 45-minute-plus-comercials. BSG did okay, too. Not perfect and not universally, but pretty good.

Both are very good by scifi standards.
Huh? Commercials for what?
Products, services, or similar promotions to be broadcast during breaks in the show during slots that advertisers purchased from SyFy Channel.
"Dude she's the Purdue Pharma of the black pill." - JasonL

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Warren
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by Warren »

lunchstealer wrote: 15 Nov 2020, 14:46
Warren wrote: 15 Nov 2020, 11:22
lunchstealer wrote: 14 Nov 2020, 23:55 I kinda feel like The Expanse has done a pretty good job with 13-ep character development, and the first three seasons were 45-minute-plus-comercials. BSG did okay, too. Not perfect and not universally, but pretty good.

Both are very good by scifi standards.
Huh? Commercials for what?
Products, services, or similar promotions to be broadcast during breaks in the show during slots that advertisers purchased from SyFy Channel.
You're saying there were long commercial breaks.
DVR FTW
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lunchstealer
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by lunchstealer »

Warren wrote: 15 Nov 2020, 15:49
lunchstealer wrote: 15 Nov 2020, 14:46
Warren wrote: 15 Nov 2020, 11:22
lunchstealer wrote: 14 Nov 2020, 23:55 I kinda feel like The Expanse has done a pretty good job with 13-ep character development, and the first three seasons were 45-minute-plus-comercials. BSG did okay, too. Not perfect and not universally, but pretty good.

Both are very good by scifi standards.
Huh? Commercials for what?
Products, services, or similar promotions to be broadcast during breaks in the show during slots that advertisers purchased from SyFy Channel.
You're saying there were long commercial breaks.
DVR FTW
well yeah, mostly I'm saying that premium-cable one-hour episodes are 55-59 minutes long (or sometimes more for big episodes), while basic cable one-hour episodes are 42-46 minutes.
"Dude she's the Purdue Pharma of the black pill." - JasonL

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"That's just tokenism with extra steps." - Jake
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Ellie
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by Ellie »

Hugh Akston wrote: 16 Oct 2020, 17:10
Warren wrote: 16 Oct 2020, 16:51
The unearned emotional stakes are still there, but that's a symptom of the larger GAoTV 10-episode-season model.
GAoTV? It's certainly not an artifact of the 10 episodes every year and a half model. Plenty of great shows have used that model without resorting to unearned emotional stakes.
Sure, but the heart of Star Trek has always been its little character/relationship moments. There's a lot less room for those in 10 episodes than in 24. I don't know that I've seen a 10-episode-season drama that has managed to really develop the characters in an ensemble cast.
Firefly?

If we can include animation, I think Dragon Prince does a solid job (especially for a show that's semi kid friendly).
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Kolohe
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by Kolohe »

I’ve been watching Discovery as it’s being re-aired on regular ol CBS. I like it. Though I can’t keep track of which Klingon is which to save my life.

I seem to remember the reviews on it when the first season came out being somewhat mixed. To me, it’s certainly the best out of the gate series since TOS, and has decided to take character risks that no one has done before in Trek.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex
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