The F Word

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Warren
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Re: The F Word

Post by Warren »

thoreau wrote: 11 Jun 2020, 13:08 And now The Wing's CEO is stepping down.

https://www.businessinsider.com/audrey- ... ceo-2020-6

It's not surprising that a business based on in-person services would be struggling right now. What's amusing is that they are making this about "We just haven't seen Real Communism Intersectionality yet."
This is way outside my wheelhouse, but didn't The Wing come under attack almost at birth for being too white? Or like white women in the leadership making spaces for other women, or some such?
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Re: The F Word

Post by thoreau »

killed by an act of Karen on Karen violence (Amanda Hess at the Times),

eventually snuffed out by the pandemic.
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Re: The F Word

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

Animated series pitch: The Karen Bears! There's Anti-Vaxxer Karen and Soccer Karen and Speak-to-your-manager Karen and Chardonnay Karen and they all have entitled adventures in the Karenmobile, a Cadillac Escalade with an "All Our Children Are Honor Students" and a soccer ball sticker.
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Re: The F Word

Post by lunchstealer »

thoreau wrote: 11 Jun 2020, 16:40
killed by an act of Karen on Karen violence (Amanda Hess at the Times),

eventually snuffed out by the pandemic.
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Re: The F Word

Post by thoreau »

thoreau wrote: 11 Jun 2020, 13:08 And now The Wing's CEO is stepping down.

https://www.businessinsider.com/audrey- ... ceo-2020-6

It's not surprising that a business based on in-person services would be struggling right now. What's amusing is that they are making this about "We just haven't seen Real Communism Intersectionality yet."
A good, related analysis of the contradictions in woke feminist capitalism:

“The End of the Girlboss Is Nigh” by Leigh Stein https://link.medium.com/lPwfsPXmx7

A woman can be a capitalist and a feminist without contradiction, but when you try to add wokeness, you're committing to catering to umpteen million political demands or else facing criticism for not doing so. Since this pandering to demands of message discipline is rarely profitable, you are either performing unpaid emotional labor (which is neither feminist nor capitalist) or you're an un-woke hypocrite.
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Re: The F Word

Post by Warren »

I can't tell the players without a scorecard anymore.
Who is on Team Woke?
  • Feminists
  • BLM
  • LGBT
  • Immigrants
  • Jews
  • Muslims
  • Environmentalists
  • Democrats
  • Others?
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Re: The F Word

Post by lunchstealer »

Warren wrote: 23 Jun 2020, 10:24 I can't tell the players without a scorecard anymore.
Who is on Team Woke?
  • Feminists
  • BLM
  • LGBT
  • Immigrants
  • Jews
  • Muslims
  • Environmentalists
  • Democrats
  • Others?
IIUC, it's less about teams, specifically, and more about performance.

Also no Jews are not on Team Woke by default, because jesus bro do you even BDS?
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Re: The F Word

Post by Warren »

lunchstealer wrote: 23 Jun 2020, 13:05 IIUC, it's less about teams, specifically, and more about performance.
Performance? Like in athletics, or entertainment?
So if someone starts getting on my case about privilege and appropriation, would it be an effective retort to juggle at them?
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Re: The F Word

Post by lunchstealer »

Warren wrote: 23 Jun 2020, 14:50
lunchstealer wrote: 23 Jun 2020, 13:05 IIUC, it's less about teams, specifically, and more about performance.
Performance? Like in athletics, or entertainment?
So if someone starts getting on my case about privilege and appropriation, would it be an effective retort to juggle at them?
Only if you juggle your own self flagellation at being a cishet whitebro shitlord.
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Re: The F Word

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Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Like baptists at the glory hole

"oh dear" they mutter, unzipping their pants

-dhex
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Re: The F Word

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OK Holden.
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Re: The F Word

Post by thoreau »

Planned Parenthood apologizes for past, present, and probably future. Starts off reasonable enough, criticizing Margaret Sanger, because I gather there hasn't been enough of that. But then:
But we can’t simply call her racist, scrub her from our history, and move on. We must examine how we have perpetuated her harms over the last century — as an organization, an institution, and as individuals.
So far sounds like any self-denunciation from the past year, whether issued by a liberal arts college, corporation, non-profit, Portland eatery, or astronomy department. Go on.
What we don’t want to be, as an organization, is a Karen. You know Karen: She escalates small confrontations because of her own racial anxiety. She calls the manager. She calls the police. She stands with other white parents to maintain school segregation. And then there are the organizational Karens. The groups who show up, assert themselves, and tell you where to march. Those who pursue freedom and fairness, but also leverage their privilege in ways that are dehumanizing.
Oh, good, denunciation of women who speak out.
And sometimes, that’s how Planned Parenthood has acted. By privileging whiteness, we’ve contributed to America harming Black women and other women of color.

Will they say how they have done this in recent decades, during which Sanger has been the main course at an august convocation of worms? Or is it just that it's 2021 and they are a lefty non-profit so this confession is obligatory?
And when we focus too narrowly on “women’s health,” we have excluded trans and nonbinary people.
God forbid the use of colloquial language for the half of humanity whose reproductive needs they have long advocated for. Much better to just refer to the traditionally more oppressed half of humanity as "people with uteruses." Or "people with uteri", depending on your linguistic leanings.
As we face relentless attacks on our ability to keep providing sexual and reproductive health care, including abortion, we’ve claimed the mantle of women’s rights, to the exclusion of other causes that women of color and trans people cannot afford to ignore. And when we are rightfully called out by other leaders in the movement for reproductive justice who have pushed us for years to do better, we cry. In doing so, we’re failing in our mission to care for all the communities we serve.
No matter how noble the cause there is always someone who has it worse. Does that mean that no organization should ever focus? That every organization must be a comprehensive social justice organization ready to pivot at any moment rather than focusing? If I donate to a food bank in rural WI, should I withhold future donations until they commit to meeting the Healthcare needs of Black communities in Milwaukee?
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Re: The F Word

Post by Eric the .5b »

thoreau wrote: 18 Apr 2021, 15:57Oh, good, denunciation of women who speak out.
I can only answer as the kids do. "LOL. 'KaReN iS a SlUr FoR wOmEn SpEaKiNg OuT.'"
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Re: The F Word

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thoreau wrote: 18 Apr 2021, 15:57
And when we focus too narrowly on “women’s health,” we have excluded trans and nonbinary people.
God forbid the use of colloquial language for the half of humanity whose reproductive needs they have long advocated for. Much better to just refer to the traditionally more oppressed half of humanity as "people with uteruses." Or "people with uteri", depending on your linguistic leanings.
And god forbid any TERF suggest that changing "women" to "people with uteruses" might be dehumanizing to members of the former group. (We also should stop calling humans "bipedal" lest we hurt the feelings of those unfortunates who have fewer than two legs.)
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Re: The F Word

Post by Eric the .5b »

"If YoU dOn'T tReAt My SiTuAtIoN aS tHe OnLy PoSsIbLe CaSe, YoU aRe DeHuMaNiZiNg Me!"
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
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Re: The F Word

Post by Eric the .5b »

thoreau wrote: 18 Apr 2021, 15:57No matter how noble the cause there is always someone who has it worse. Does that mean that no organization should ever focus? That every organization must be a comprehensive social justice organization ready to pivot at any moment rather than focusing? If I donate to a food bank in rural WI, should I withhold future donations until they commit to meeting the Healthcare needs of Black communities in Milwaukee?
This criticism, I think, is absolutely fair. It's the endless misery olympics, combined with competing sloganeering (the whole "access vs. choice" business, ala the "abolition/defunding vs. reform" business last year).
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Re: The F Word

Post by Jennifer »

You know things are getting serious when your detractors resort to using the dreaded Spongebob Font to answer you. But if there is a properly capitalized explanation why women should not feel that being referred to as merely "people with uteruses" is dehumanizing, I'd be interested to hear it.
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Re: The F Word

Post by Eric the .5b »

Jennifer wrote: 19 Apr 2021, 10:29 You know things are getting serious when your detractors resort to using the dreaded Spongebob Font to answer you. But if there is a properly capitalized explanation why women should not feel that being referred to as merely "people with uteruses" is dehumanizing, I'd be interested to hear it.
No, it's that the complaint is just that laughable.

I mean, not to blow anyone's mind or anything, but people are human. Calling people "people" is in no way dehumanizing. It's in fact the literal opposite of dehumanizing. It feels downright bizarre to have to explain that.

Hence the sarcasm.

And yeah, declaring that it would be "dehumanizing" (or using similarly ridiculous rhetoric that frames oneself as harmed or oppressed) if trans men and nb people with the same plumbing are treated as respectfully as oneself, that's some big Karen energy.
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Re: The F Word

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Does "woman" have any actual non-terfy meaning anymore? Presumably, belonging to the group whose civil rights are routinely ignored in countries around the world today (and whose reproductive rights are under threat in many parts of the US) does not make one a "woman," merely a person with a uterus. But someone with a fully functional penis can be considered a "woman" regarding "Now that this person has been convicted of a crime, should they be locked up in a women's or a men's prison?" When Jonathan/Jessica Yaniv sued those immigrants who offered Brazilian waxes to "women" and refused to wax her womanly testicles ... what, do future entrepreneurs who offer Brazilian waxes have to specify "we only wax vulvae" because offering waxes to "women" might hurt the feelings of women with male genitalia?

I'll admit, if we lived in some ideal utopia where women and girls (according to the old-school definitions of the word) never faced any discrimination anymore, and where even rape and sexual assault were exceedingly rare (and punished harshly upon conviction; none of this Brock Turner shit), perhaps I'd shrug this off or even side with the "let's not talk about pregnant women" brigade. But in the world we have now -- women's rights are still under attack in this country, but when fighting to preserve those rights, clearly we need to prioritize sparing the feelings of those who feel like 'women" even though their rights are not under attack, and also those whose rights are under attack but don't call them "women" because they don't agree.
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Re: The F Word

Post by Eric the .5b »

Jennifer wrote: 19 Apr 2021, 15:44Does "woman" have any actual non-terfy meaning anymore? Presumably, belonging to the group whose civil rights are routinely ignored in countries around the world today (and whose reproductive rights are under threat in many parts of the US) does not make one a "woman," merely a person with a uterus.
Ah, so you're getting closer to what you really meant. It's not your humanity you thought was being denied, it was your identity, your femininity, that you think is threatened if it's not rightfully forced on people who don't identify as female.

I am morbidly intrigued by this idea that it's important to shit on other, less powerful groups and express disdain toward any concept of accommodation or respect towards them in order to improve your own group's situation. (And given this fascinating premise, I'm curious about the reasoning for why any man should ever want women's situation to advance.)
Jennifer wrote: 19 Apr 2021, 15:44what, do future entrepreneurs who offer Brazilian waxes have to specify "we only wax vulvae" because offering waxes to "women" might hurt the feelings of women with male genitalia?
Or men with vulvas. But, you know, the horror. What next, I'm expected to say "they" when talking about a doctor or lawyer of unknown gender just to placate the smallish minority of them who are women?
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Re: The F Word

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Jennifer wrote: 19 Apr 2021, 15:44 I'll admit, if we lived in some ideal utopia where women and girls (according to the old-school definitions of the word) never faced any discrimination anymore, and where even rape and sexual assault were exceedingly rare (and punished harshly upon conviction; none of this Brock Turner shit), perhaps I'd shrug this off or even side with the "let's not talk about pregnant women" brigade. But in the world we have now -- women's rights are still under attack in this country, but when fighting to preserve those rights, clearly we need to prioritize sparing the feelings of those who feel like 'women" even though their rights are not under attack, and also those whose rights are under attack but don't call them "women" because they don't agree.
Considering that trans people experience rape and intimate partner violence at or above the rate suffered by cis women, (to say nothing of discrimination) I'm not quite sure where you're going with the whole "we need biologically linked terms lest we lose the battle against rape and violence against women."
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Re: The F Word

Post by Eric the .5b »

In "a world" where even in this country, they're passing laws to allow pelvic exams of student athletes on-demand out of hostility toward trans girls, and the previous president tried to chase all transgender people out of military service? I'm not sure how trans women's rights could be described as not under attack.

I'm also not clear why the complaints, supposedly about Planned Parenthood (and Thoreau's suggestion of a terminology change), always keep focusing more on trans women--who don't have uteruses, ovaries, etc.--in preference to trans men--who usually do have those organs--as if trans women with big swinging dicks are flooding their clinics and demanding gynecological exams.
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Re: The F Word

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It comes down to whether "man" and "woman" are gendered terms, sexed terms, or both. If they are only gendered terms, then using them in reference to sexual anatomy is inappropriate. We need some other term. I can't blame the people covered by that term for wanting something other than "vagina haver" or whatever. Maybe "woman" isn't the right term, but I get why they don't want something so anatomically reductionist as "people with uteri" or whatever. Direct references to organs sound vulgar to many people.

"Biological females" would seem a reasonable term for a sexual category, since sex is a biological trait and "female" is used all the time in biology. It's also a more versatile term, encompassing many aspects of life, and less focused on a particular organ.
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Re: The F Word

Post by thoreau »

I mean, I'd feel pretty awkward going around calling myself a "prostate haver" or "person with a penis." Maybe I should be more anatomy-positive, but I'm as much a social creature as anyone else. But there are fewer social discussions of health issues specific to men's XY people's anatomy, whether because our kind are more insecure, or less health-conscious, or XX sexual anatomy is more heavily scrutinized and policed by society, or whatever.

So there aren't going to be nearly as many articles aimed at people with prostates or people with testicles in the sorts of venues aimed at audiences where getting these terms right is seen as urgent. And that's kind of a shame, since some nasty cancers do have heavy incidence among XY people in their 20's. But there are many, many articles on diseases of the breasts, ovaries, cervix, etc. So terminology for people with common XX phenotypes seems more urgent for writers aiming at certain age groups.
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Re: The F Word

Post by Eric the .5b »

In a society where we didn't have cis people who get pissy at anyone suggesting that they don't have the moral right to decree whether other people are "men" or "women" against their wishes, I suspect occasional phrases like "women's health" or whatever could probably slide.

Or maybe the future is just MAGA types throwing a fit at terms like "gynecology" and declaring the proper term is Lady Parts Doctoring.
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