I agree that this is bad behavior. I dislike lane splitting, and think that cyclists should act like vehicles, including holding their place in line. And if it's a right turn lane, the cyclist shouldn't be in it if they're going straight (they should be in the through lane). And if it's a thru/right, then they're fine to take up the middle of the lane, like a car, when it's their turn. You'd have to wait for a car in the same situation, no?Aresen wrote:My grievance with cyclists on the road is not that they want the same rights as motor vehicles. It is that they want it both ways. I have sat behind a bicycle at an intersection where the guy on the cycle is sitting in the middle of the lane, preventing me from making a right turn. But I have yet to see a cyclist coming up behind a car who does not move into the space between the car and the curb in order to get up to the intersection at the front of the line. (I am referring to cases where there is no "bike lane".
I want to ride my bicycle! I want to ride my bike!
Re: I want to ride my bicycle! I want to ride my bike!
"Sharks do not go around challenging people to games of chance like dojo breakers."
- lunchstealer
- Posts: 19392
- Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:25
- Location: The Local Fluff in the Local Bubble
Re: I want to ride my bicycle! I want to ride my bike!
Yeah, lane splitting is stupid and dangerous except in very rare situations.Highway wrote:I agree that this is bad behavior. I dislike lane splitting, and think that cyclists should act like vehicles, including holding their place in line. And if it's a right turn lane, the cyclist shouldn't be in it if they're going straight (they should be in the through lane). And if it's a thru/right, then they're fine to take up the middle of the lane, like a car, when it's their turn. You'd have to wait for a car in the same situation, no?Aresen wrote:My grievance with cyclists on the road is not that they want the same rights as motor vehicles. It is that they want it both ways. I have sat behind a bicycle at an intersection where the guy on the cycle is sitting in the middle of the lane, preventing me from making a right turn. But I have yet to see a cyclist coming up behind a car who does not move into the space between the car and the curb in order to get up to the intersection at the front of the line. (I am referring to cases where there is no "bike lane".
"Dude she's the Purdue Pharma of the black pill." - JasonL
"This thread is like a dog park where everyone lets their preconceptions and biases run around and sniff each others butts." - Hugh Akston
"That's just tokenism with extra steps." - Jake
"This thread is like a dog park where everyone lets their preconceptions and biases run around and sniff each others butts." - Hugh Akston
"That's just tokenism with extra steps." - Jake
Re: I want to ride my bicycle! I want to ride my bike!
Are you not leaving adequate stopping distance for the conditions? Then that's your fault, no matter how much you want to shift blame to another person. Or are you saying that cyclists suddenly pop out on you like kids running out from between parked cars?Ayn_Randian wrote:Highway, you're in "let them eat cake" territory here. Has anyone ever stopped short immediately in front of you in the grocery. That sort of jarring behavior is more than an annoyance; it's legitimately distressing, not to mention that my failure to go from 35 to 10 in mere seconds means I may kill someone. Sure, I see the cyclist and slow down, but do the three cars behind me? I sure hope so. Oh and when traffic is parked on both sides of a narrow street, you're going 10 until you can "pass", which in theory you're not even allowed to do, because that's a "vehicle".
It's like when someone is standing still on a moving sidewalk and their bag is blocking you from going around. That situation is literally every day for me and for most people I talk to.
And it's legal in Ohio to pass any slow vehicle, even crossing a double yellow line to do so. It is incumbent on you to do so safely.
Most places it's legal for cyclists to ride on sidewalks. This doesn't change the fact that apparently cycling on the sidewalk, when surveyed in 1992, had an accident rate 1.8 times higher than cycling in the road, and I'd imagine the injuries were similar, since the damage to a cyclist is from their speed, not the speed they get hit at. There will be accidents between drivers and cyclists. But magicking cyclists out of the way isn't going to happen.
"Sharks do not go around challenging people to games of chance like dojo breakers."
- Ayn_Randian
- Posts: 10727
- Joined: 08 May 2010, 14:58
Re: I want to ride my bicycle! I want to ride my bike!
Please let me know when the magic unicorn comes around and shits some gold too.lunchstealer wrote:And that's a problem if there are people driving who aren't competent to operate a vehicle as dangerous as a car. Maybe they should be relegated to bicycles and buses.Ayn_Randian wrote:But bikes are the ones that routinely and reliably cause slowdowns. It's in their nature to do so.
It has the effect of making me want desperately to do the opposite of what Green Day is suggesting I should want to do. Billy Joe Whassname may have created a generation of war mongers. - Jason L
- Ayn_Randian
- Posts: 10727
- Joined: 08 May 2010, 14:58
Re: I want to ride my bicycle! I want to ride my bike!
Cyclists are hard to see in many contexts. They're not popping out per se but they do appear in contexts where it's akin to looking for children on the road, yes.Highway wrote:Are you not leaving adequate stopping distance for the conditions? Then that's your fault, no matter how much you want to shift blame to another person. Or are you saying that cyclists suddenly pop out on you like kids running out from between parked cars?Ayn_Randian wrote:Highway, you're in "let them eat cake" territory here. Has anyone ever stopped short immediately in front of you in the grocery. That sort of jarring behavior is more than an annoyance; it's legitimately distressing, not to mention that my failure to go from 35 to 10 in mere seconds means I may kill someone. Sure, I see the cyclist and slow down, but do the three cars behind me? I sure hope so. Oh and when traffic is parked on both sides of a narrow street, you're going 10 until you can "pass", which in theory you're not even allowed to do, because that's a "vehicle".
It's like when someone is standing still on a moving sidewalk and their bag is blocking you from going around. That situation is literally every day for me and for most people I talk to.
And it's legal in Ohio to pass any slow vehicle, even crossing a double yellow line to do so. It is incumbent on you to do so safely.
Most places it's legal for cyclists to ride on sidewalks. This doesn't change the fact that apparently cycling on the sidewalk, when surveyed in 1992, had an accident rate 1.8 times higher than cycling in the road, and I'd imagine the injuries were similar, since the damage to a cyclist is from their speed, not the speed they get hit at. There will be accidents between drivers and cyclists. But magicking cyclists out of the way isn't going to happen.
Legal is not the same as safe. It's legal for me to to lift heavy things, but given my back, that doesn't make it wise or optimal. Few routes at 35 or 45 have double yellows. They do, however, have cars parked in the lanes, more frequently than not. Tell me what the outcomes were of that 1.8 multiplier. Did anyone die, like, ever?
Final point: how does your logic here not apply equally to pedestrians?
Look, if we want more people to bike, cool. I'm just saying that roads are not appropriate places to implement.
It has the effect of making me want desperately to do the opposite of what Green Day is suggesting I should want to do. Billy Joe Whassname may have created a generation of war mongers. - Jason L
Re: I want to ride my bicycle! I want to ride my bike!
I deal with cyclists on my two lane street regularly and while it is annoying it costs me all of 15 seconds total. I would also not that for all the safety freakout about it pre-launch there have been exactly 0 cyclist deaths
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod
no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex
no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex
Re: I want to ride my bicycle! I want to ride my bike!
Or standing on the left side of an escalator. Ugh.Ayn_Randian wrote:Highway, you're in "let them eat cake" territory here. Has anyone ever stopped short immediately in front of you in the grocery. That sort of jarring behavior is more than an annoyance; it's legitimately distressing, not to mention that my failure to go from 35 to 10 in mere seconds means I may kill someone. Sure, I see the cyclist and slow down, but do the three cars behind me? I sure hope so. Oh and when traffic is parked on both sides of a narrow street, you're going 10 until you can "pass", which in theory you're not even allowed to do, because that's a "vehicle".
It's like when someone is standing still on a moving sidewalk and their bag is blocking you from going around. That situation is literally every day for me and for most people I talk to.
Yeah, everyday occurrence for sure.
"Fucking qualia." -Hugh Akston
"Sliced bagels aren't why trump won; it's why it doesn't matter who wins." -dhex
"Sliced bagels aren't why trump won; it's why it doesn't matter who wins." -dhex
Re: I want to ride my bicycle! I want to ride my bike!
You know, I feel the same way about people who walk four miles an hour and don't slalom through foot traffic appropriately. It in fact makes me angry when I'm stuck behind someone walking at a normal walking pace. But I recognize that this is a character flaw in me, not a fault in the other person.nicole wrote:Or standing on the left side of an escalator. Ugh.Ayn_Randian wrote:Highway, you're in "let them eat cake" territory here. Has anyone ever stopped short immediately in front of you in the grocery. That sort of jarring behavior is more than an annoyance; it's legitimately distressing, not to mention that my failure to go from 35 to 10 in mere seconds means I may kill someone. Sure, I see the cyclist and slow down, but do the three cars behind me? I sure hope so. Oh and when traffic is parked on both sides of a narrow street, you're going 10 until you can "pass", which in theory you're not even allowed to do, because that's a "vehicle".
It's like when someone is standing still on a moving sidewalk and their bag is blocking you from going around. That situation is literally every day for me and for most people I talk to.
Yeah, everyday occurrence for sure.
Re: I want to ride my bicycle! I want to ride my bike!
I am now interested to see what happens when jadagul and my wife are walking in the same place. I've never known anyone with a comfortable walking pace as fast as hers, and if she's in a hurry she transforms into what I used to call turbo turtle because I always saw that mode when she was wearing a green backpack in the airport.
Re: I want to ride my bicycle! I want to ride my bike!
When I'm in a hurry--or pissed off-I've actually walked over a mile in ten minutes before. That's over the speed where it's usually easier to just start jogging.JasonL wrote:I am now interested to see what happens when jadagul and my wife are walking in the same place. I've never known anyone with a comfortable walking pace as fast as hers, and if she's in a hurry she transforms into what I used to call turbo turtle because I always saw that mode when she was wearing a green backpack in the airport.
Re: I want to ride my bicycle! I want to ride my bike!
What does it take to get Jadagul pissed off?
Or are there things we are better off not knowing?
Or are there things we are better off not knowing?
"...if that monkey gets any smarter it's going to start shorting TSLA."
--JD
--JD
Re: I want to ride my bicycle! I want to ride my bike!
We have to make this happen some how. If you couldn't at least touch a 10 min mile, you wouldn't have a prayer of keeping up with my wife.Jadagul wrote:When I'm in a hurry--or pissed off-I've actually walked over a mile in ten minutes before. That's over the speed where it's usually easier to just start jogging.JasonL wrote:I am now interested to see what happens when jadagul and my wife are walking in the same place. I've never known anyone with a comfortable walking pace as fast as hers, and if she's in a hurry she transforms into what I used to call turbo turtle because I always saw that mode when she was wearing a green backpack in the airport.
Re: I want to ride my bicycle! I want to ride my bike!
I was a bit excitable when I was younger.thoreau wrote:What does it take to get Jadagul pissed off?
Or are there things we are better off not knowing?
Actually, this mainly came up when my college friends were complaining about how 3/4 of a mile was way too far to walk just to get to the nice dining hall rather than the shitty one. Or when they decided it was worth driving there instead. (I beat them a couple times).
- Ayn_Randian
- Posts: 10727
- Joined: 08 May 2010, 14:58
Re: I want to ride my bicycle! I want to ride my bike!
Good analogy except for the small flaw where 4MPH is normal and you're abnormally above the prevailing rate, where the bike, however, is well below the prevailing rate. If I were talking about how pissed off it makes me when people go 65 because I want to go 100, that would make sense. But that's not what I'm talking about.Jadagul wrote:You know, I feel the same way about people who walk four miles an hour and don't slalom through foot traffic appropriately. It in fact makes me angry when I'm stuck behind someone walking at a normal walking pace. But I recognize that this is a character flaw in me, not a fault in the other person.nicole wrote:Or standing on the left side of an escalator. Ugh.Ayn_Randian wrote:Highway, you're in "let them eat cake" territory here. Has anyone ever stopped short immediately in front of you in the grocery. That sort of jarring behavior is more than an annoyance; it's legitimately distressing, not to mention that my failure to go from 35 to 10 in mere seconds means I may kill someone. Sure, I see the cyclist and slow down, but do the three cars behind me? I sure hope so. Oh and when traffic is parked on both sides of a narrow street, you're going 10 until you can "pass", which in theory you're not even allowed to do, because that's a "vehicle".
It's like when someone is standing still on a moving sidewalk and their bag is blocking you from going around. That situation is literally every day for me and for most people I talk to.
Yeah, everyday occurrence for sure.
Kudos for you on the character flaw thing.
It has the effect of making me want desperately to do the opposite of what Green Day is suggesting I should want to do. Billy Joe Whassname may have created a generation of war mongers. - Jason L
Re: I want to ride my bicycle! I want to ride my bike!
Should we ban tourists from the sidewalks of NYC? They go 3 when everyone else is going 5 and they stop short all the time.
It's not like bikes are on interstates, they're on streets where the speed limit is 25-35 miles an hour. The thing is cars will slow down significantly for a car going 25 on a 25 road as well.
It's not like bikes are on interstates, they're on streets where the speed limit is 25-35 miles an hour. The thing is cars will slow down significantly for a car going 25 on a 25 road as well.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod
no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex
no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex
Re: I want to ride my bicycle! I want to ride my bike!
Wouldn't it just be simpler to quarantine NYC altogether?Mo wrote:Should we ban tourists from the sidewalks of NYC? They go 3 when everyone else is going 5 and they stop short all the time.

If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo
Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one
Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex
Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one
Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex
Re: I want to ride my bicycle! I want to ride my bike!
Is that supposed to be funny? Maybe people don't realize this is why some of us are libertarians; slow side-walkers would be first against the wall. Imma have to walk to work down 8th Ave in Midtown this week and if being pointedly, retardedly in the way isn't aggression I don't know what is. Get out of everyone's way as fast as you can. That's the only thing holding society together. Why on earth it would be a personality flaw to be impatient but not to actively fuck with people is beyond me.Mo wrote:Should we ban tourists from the sidewalks of NYC? They go 3 when everyone else is going 5 and they stop short all the time.
It's not like bikes are on interstates, they're on streets where the speed limit is 25-35 miles an hour. The thing is cars will slow down significantly for a car going 25 on a 25 road as well.
And bikes are just like buses, delivery vans, etc. Another pain in the ass that slows down traffic as everyone passes them. But we're supposed to act like they're something other than that because environment.
"Fucking qualia." -Hugh Akston
"Sliced bagels aren't why trump won; it's why it doesn't matter who wins." -dhex
"Sliced bagels aren't why trump won; it's why it doesn't matter who wins." -dhex
Re: I want to ride my bicycle! I want to ride my bike!
I don't think anyone's asking you to act like they're something different. Heck, treat them like that other stuff: they have a right to be on the road, and you don't hit them. Noone's asking you to like them.nicole wrote:And bikes are just like buses, delivery vans, etc. Another pain in the ass that slows down traffic as everyone passes them. But we're supposed to act like they're something other than that because environment.
"Sharks do not go around challenging people to games of chance like dojo breakers."
Re: I want to ride my bicycle! I want to ride my bike!
Cyclists and environmentalists are.
I mean, that's how I treat them in practice. I would say based on these discussions I'm more likely than anyone here to do normal, everyday drives involving a lot of bicycles, buses, and other nonmoving vehicles, more likely to drive places with dedicated bike lanes that have actual traffic (car and bike), and more likely to drive places without bike lanes that have lots of bikes. Cycling is also illegal here on the sidewalk if you're over 12. It's not a matter of "I don't know how to drive," it's a matter of recognizing these are all things that make the driving experience worse.
I'm also probably the most frequently almost-hit-by-a-bike person here (as a pedestrian), so no, I don't have a lot of love, either. And I say that with $10k in bikes sitting in the next room.
I mean, that's how I treat them in practice. I would say based on these discussions I'm more likely than anyone here to do normal, everyday drives involving a lot of bicycles, buses, and other nonmoving vehicles, more likely to drive places with dedicated bike lanes that have actual traffic (car and bike), and more likely to drive places without bike lanes that have lots of bikes. Cycling is also illegal here on the sidewalk if you're over 12. It's not a matter of "I don't know how to drive," it's a matter of recognizing these are all things that make the driving experience worse.
I'm also probably the most frequently almost-hit-by-a-bike person here (as a pedestrian), so no, I don't have a lot of love, either. And I say that with $10k in bikes sitting in the next room.
"Fucking qualia." -Hugh Akston
"Sliced bagels aren't why trump won; it's why it doesn't matter who wins." -dhex
"Sliced bagels aren't why trump won; it's why it doesn't matter who wins." -dhex
- D.A. Ridgely
- Posts: 20950
- Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:09
- Location: The Other Side
Re: I want to ride my bicycle! I want to ride my bike!
How many bicycle riders would be willing to pay an annual bicycle registration fee that collectively approaches the cost of building and maintaining those bicycle lanes?
Re: I want to ride my bicycle! I want to ride my bike!
How many motorists are willing to pay gas taxes and registration fees that approached the cost of building and maintaining those roads. (to say nothing of the externalities)D.A. Ridgely wrote:How many bicycle riders would be willing to pay an annual bicycle registration fee that collectively approaches the cost of building and maintaining those bicycle lanes?
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex
Re: I want to ride my bicycle! I want to ride my bike!
I would also note that maintenance of bike lanes is minimal. The cost of maintenance is related to vehicle weight. The damage a bike does to a road is indistinguishable from the damage a pedestrian does to a sidewalk.
To be fair, the vast majority of damage done to roads comes from large vehicles, like trucks.
To be fair, the vast majority of damage done to roads comes from large vehicles, like trucks.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod
no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex
no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex
- D.A. Ridgely
- Posts: 20950
- Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:09
- Location: The Other Side
Re: I want to ride my bicycle! I want to ride my bike!
I don't know. I do know, however, that they pay substantially more of those costs than bicyclists do. Bicycle lanes are either, um, appropriated from streets that were designed for motor vehicle traffic and parking or designed as part of new roads but in neither case do they come close to paying for themselves. As matters currently stand, it strikes me that they're a pretty straightforward case of robbing Peter to pay Paul.Kolohe wrote:How many motorists are willing to pay gas taxes and registration fees that approached the cost of building and maintaining those roads. (to say nothing of the externalities)D.A. Ridgely wrote:How many bicycle riders would be willing to pay an annual bicycle registration fee that collectively approaches the cost of building and maintaining those bicycle lanes?
- lunchstealer
- Posts: 19392
- Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:25
- Location: The Local Fluff in the Local Bubble
Re: I want to ride my bicycle! I want to ride my bike!
No, you're not supposed to act like they're not pains in the asses, you're supposed to accept that sometimes you're a pain in someone else's ass, and sometimes someone's a pain in your ass, and grow the fuck up and deal with the fact that they're there, have every right to be there, they're not doing it to inconvenience you, and you can just grow some goddamned patience.nicole wrote:Is that supposed to be funny? Maybe people don't realize this is why some of us are libertarians; slow side-walkers would be first against the wall. Imma have to walk to work down 8th Ave in Midtown this week and if being pointedly, retardedly in the way isn't aggression I don't know what is. Get out of everyone's way as fast as you can. That's the only thing holding society together. Why on earth it would be a personality flaw to be impatient but not to actively fuck with people is beyond me.Mo wrote:Should we ban tourists from the sidewalks of NYC? They go 3 when everyone else is going 5 and they stop short all the time.
It's not like bikes are on interstates, they're on streets where the speed limit is 25-35 miles an hour. The thing is cars will slow down significantly for a car going 25 on a 25 road as well.
And bikes are just like buses, delivery vans, etc. Another pain in the ass that slows down traffic as everyone passes them. But we're supposed to act like they're something other than that because environment.
"Dude she's the Purdue Pharma of the black pill." - JasonL
"This thread is like a dog park where everyone lets their preconceptions and biases run around and sniff each others butts." - Hugh Akston
"That's just tokenism with extra steps." - Jake
"This thread is like a dog park where everyone lets their preconceptions and biases run around and sniff each others butts." - Hugh Akston
"That's just tokenism with extra steps." - Jake
Re: I want to ride my bicycle! I want to ride my bike!
Yeah. But some people spent time and effort trying not to be in other people's way. And some people don't.lunchstealer wrote:No, you're not supposed to act like they're not pains in the asses, you're supposed to accept that sometimes you're a pain in someone else's ass, and sometimes someone's a pain in your ass, and grow the fuck up and deal with the fact that they're there, have every right to be there, they're not doing it to inconvenience you, and you can just grow some goddamned patience.nicole wrote:Is that supposed to be funny? Maybe people don't realize this is why some of us are libertarians; slow side-walkers would be first against the wall. Imma have to walk to work down 8th Ave in Midtown this week and if being pointedly, retardedly in the way isn't aggression I don't know what is. Get out of everyone's way as fast as you can. That's the only thing holding society together. Why on earth it would be a personality flaw to be impatient but not to actively fuck with people is beyond me.Mo wrote:Should we ban tourists from the sidewalks of NYC? They go 3 when everyone else is going 5 and they stop short all the time.
It's not like bikes are on interstates, they're on streets where the speed limit is 25-35 miles an hour. The thing is cars will slow down significantly for a car going 25 on a 25 road as well.
And bikes are just like buses, delivery vans, etc. Another pain in the ass that slows down traffic as everyone passes them. But we're supposed to act like they're something other than that because environment.
"Fucking qualia." -Hugh Akston
"Sliced bagels aren't why trump won; it's why it doesn't matter who wins." -dhex
"Sliced bagels aren't why trump won; it's why it doesn't matter who wins." -dhex