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Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Posted: 18 Sep 2020, 06:53
by Eric the .5b
thoreau wrote: 18 Sep 2020, 00:56And if the worst fears from initial reports are not 100% born out then it's all "FAKE NEWS!!!!"
Dude.

If it's anything that doesn't flatter Trump, even if it's completely and demonstrably true, it's "FAKE NEWS!!!"

Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Posted: 18 Sep 2020, 09:30
by JD
Eric the .5b wrote: 17 Sep 2020, 18:28 Well, most of them may not really believe much of Qanon. Kinda like people dropped Birtherism pretty hard after Obama was out of office, at least in my neck of the woods. It's something to profess in order to signal, like the idea that Harris was a progressive prosecutor.
This is pretty much my feeling too (admittedly I have little hard evidence to back it up). Of course I'm sure there are some true believers, but it's kind of like how when people sing their school's fight song, it's not about whether they literally believe every word.

Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Posted: 18 Sep 2020, 12:23
by Number 6
JD wrote: 18 Sep 2020, 09:30
Eric the .5b wrote: 17 Sep 2020, 18:28 Well, most of them may not really believe much of Qanon. Kinda like people dropped Birtherism pretty hard after Obama was out of office, at least in my neck of the woods. It's something to profess in order to signal, like the idea that Harris was a progressive prosecutor.
This is pretty much my feeling too (admittedly I have little hard evidence to back it up). Of course I'm sure there are some true believers, but it's kind of like how when people sing their school's fight song, it's not about whether they literally believe every word.
I don’t get that. I suppose it’s kind of like people who mouth the Apostle’s Creed in church. But even those people must at least have some belief in Jesus. In the same way, the QAnon people must at least take a big sip of the kool aid.

Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Posted: 18 Sep 2020, 13:16
by lunchstealer
Number 6 wrote: 18 Sep 2020, 12:23
JD wrote: 18 Sep 2020, 09:30
Eric the .5b wrote: 17 Sep 2020, 18:28 Well, most of them may not really believe much of Qanon. Kinda like people dropped Birtherism pretty hard after Obama was out of office, at least in my neck of the woods. It's something to profess in order to signal, like the idea that Harris was a progressive prosecutor.
This is pretty much my feeling too (admittedly I have little hard evidence to back it up). Of course I'm sure there are some true believers, but it's kind of like how when people sing their school's fight song, it's not about whether they literally believe every word.
I don’t get that. I suppose it’s kind of like people who mouth the Apostle’s Creed in church. But even those people must at least have some belief in Jesus. In the same way, the QAnon people must at least take a big sip of the kool aid.
Also rule of goats.

Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Posted: 18 Sep 2020, 14:24
by Eric the .5b
Number 6 wrote: 18 Sep 2020, 12:23
JD wrote: 18 Sep 2020, 09:30
Eric the .5b wrote: 17 Sep 2020, 18:28 Well, most of them may not really believe much of Qanon. Kinda like people dropped Birtherism pretty hard after Obama was out of office, at least in my neck of the woods. It's something to profess in order to signal, like the idea that Harris was a progressive prosecutor.
This is pretty much my feeling too (admittedly I have little hard evidence to back it up). Of course I'm sure there are some true believers, but it's kind of like how when people sing their school's fight song, it's not about whether they literally believe every word.
I don’t get that. I suppose it’s kind of like people who mouth the Apostle’s Creed in church. But even those people must at least have some belief in Jesus. In the same way, the QAnon people must at least take a big sip of the kool aid.
I've mouthed the words in church, and I didn't believe in Jesus as anything but some Levantine preacher.

Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Posted: 18 Sep 2020, 19:41
by Jennifer
Crap. Justice GInsburg is dead. I shudder to think who Trump will pick to replace her.

Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Posted: 18 Sep 2020, 19:54
by Aresen
Jennifer wrote: 18 Sep 2020, 19:41 Crap. Justice GInsburg is dead. I shudder to think who Trump will pick to replace her.
Fuck. Fuckity fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck.

Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Posted: 18 Sep 2020, 23:40
by Jake
Jennifer wrote: 18 Sep 2020, 19:41 Crap. Justice GInsburg is dead. I shudder to think who Trump will pick to replace her.
Those two gun-waving nutters in St. Louis are both lawyers, aren't they?

Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Posted: 18 Sep 2020, 23:43
by thoreau
Jake wrote: 18 Sep 2020, 23:40
Jennifer wrote: 18 Sep 2020, 19:41 Crap. Justice GInsburg is dead. I shudder to think who Trump will pick to replace her.
Those two gun-waving nutters in St. Louis are both lawyers, aren't they?
Yeah, but so are his daughter Tiffany and his sister Maryanne. And he's all about the nepotism.

Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Posted: 19 Sep 2020, 00:08
by D.A. Ridgely
thoreau wrote: 18 Sep 2020, 23:43
Jake wrote: 18 Sep 2020, 23:40
Jennifer wrote: 18 Sep 2020, 19:41 Crap. Justice GInsburg is dead. I shudder to think who Trump will pick to replace her.
Those two gun-waving nutters in St. Louis are both lawyers, aren't they?
Yeah, but so are his daughter Tiffany and his sister Maryanne. And he's all about the nepotism.
Actually, there's no legal requirement that a Supreme Court justice be a lawyer. Trump could nominate himself!

Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Posted: 19 Sep 2020, 00:11
by thoreau
D.A. Ridgely wrote: 19 Sep 2020, 00:08
thoreau wrote: 18 Sep 2020, 23:43
Jake wrote: 18 Sep 2020, 23:40
Jennifer wrote: 18 Sep 2020, 19:41 Crap. Justice GInsburg is dead. I shudder to think who Trump will pick to replace her.
Those two gun-waving nutters in St. Louis are both lawyers, aren't they?
Yeah, but so are his daughter Tiffany and his sister Maryanne. And he's all about the nepotism.
Actually, there's no legal requirement that a Supreme Court justice be a lawyer. Trump could nominate himself!
He'd rather nominate himself to a federal bankruptcy court. It would play to his experience. And he could do himself some favors.

That or host the next season of Divorce Court. He knows divorce AND reality TV!

Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Posted: 19 Sep 2020, 00:32
by D.A. Ridgely
thoreau wrote: 19 Sep 2020, 00:11
D.A. Ridgely wrote: 19 Sep 2020, 00:08
thoreau wrote: 18 Sep 2020, 23:43
Jake wrote: 18 Sep 2020, 23:40
Jennifer wrote: 18 Sep 2020, 19:41 Crap. Justice GInsburg is dead. I shudder to think who Trump will pick to replace her.
Those two gun-waving nutters in St. Louis are both lawyers, aren't they?
Yeah, but so are his daughter Tiffany and his sister Maryanne. And he's all about the nepotism.
Actually, there's no legal requirement that a Supreme Court justice be a lawyer. Trump could nominate himself!
He'd rather nominate himself to a federal bankruptcy court. It would play to his experience. And he could do himself some favors.

That or host the next season of Divorce Court. He knows divorce AND reality TV!
Maybe so, but I'd love to read some of Justice Trump's opinions. Come on, admit it! Wouldn't you?

(Also, if I recall correctly, bankruptcy judges are appointed by U.S. Circuit Courts.)

Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Posted: 19 Sep 2020, 00:33
by thoreau
Oral arguments would be next level.

Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Posted: 23 Sep 2020, 12:45
by Eric the .5b
Now, this is y-axis abuse, but I think it has bearing on the repeated idea that the riots are making Wisconsin break for Trump:

Image

If course, if state Reds decide to just pull the ultimate faithless electors stunt, as Trump is supposedly trying to encourage in Red-dominated state legislatures, actual votes might not matter.

Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Posted: 23 Sep 2020, 13:17
by Aresen
Eric the .5b wrote: 23 Sep 2020, 12:45 If course, if state Reds decide to just pull the ultimate faithless electors stunt, as Trump is supposedly trying to encourage in Red-dominated state legislatures, actual votes might not matter.
??? I hadn't heard of this.

I assume you mean Red State legislators attempting to tell the state's electors to vote red even though the popular vote went blue.

Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Posted: 23 Sep 2020, 13:45
by Eric the .5b
Aresen wrote: 23 Sep 2020, 13:17
Eric the .5b wrote: 23 Sep 2020, 12:45 If course, if state Reds decide to just pull the ultimate faithless electors stunt, as Trump is supposedly trying to encourage in Red-dominated state legislatures, actual votes might not matter.
??? I hadn't heard of this.

I assume you mean Red State legislators attempting to tell the state's electors to vote red even though the popular vote went blue.
According to sources in the Republican Party at the state and national levels, the Trump campaign is discussing contingency plans to bypass election results and appoint loyal electors in battleground states where Republicans hold the legislative majority. With a justification based on claims of rampant fraud, Trump would ask state legislators to set aside the popular vote and exercise their power to choose a slate of electors directly. The longer Trump succeeds in keeping the vote count in doubt, the more pressure legislators will feel to act before the safe-harbor deadline expires.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... de/616424/

Which would actually be an appropriate time for protestors to storm legislatures while waving guns, but those assholes would just stay home and cheer.

Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Posted: 23 Sep 2020, 14:25
by thoreau
Eric the .5b wrote: 23 Sep 2020, 13:45
According to sources in the Republican Party at the state and national levels, the Trump campaign is discussing contingency plans to bypass election results and appoint loyal electors in battleground states where Republicans hold the legislative majority. With a justification based on claims of rampant fraud, Trump would ask state legislators to set aside the popular vote and exercise their power to choose a slate of electors directly. The longer Trump succeeds in keeping the vote count in doubt, the more pressure legislators will feel to act before the safe-harbor deadline expires.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... de/616424/

Which would actually be an appropriate time for protestors to storm legislatures while waving guns, but those assholes would just stay home and cheer.
Reminds me of my favorite blog comment ever:
I've said this before and will again: the very heart of the "widespread gun ownership checks tyranny" argument has been tested and failed completely.

For twenty years or more, political discourse in a whole lot of online forums was swamped by people telling the rest of us how the US was getting ever more tyrannical, and that the day would come when on some flimsy pretext the government would abandon habeaus corpus, engage in unlimited surveillance of everyone it felt like spying on, arrest people on arbitrary grounds and then abuse them any way the captors felt like, and so on.

It turns out they were right about that part.

They also told the rest of us that when this happened, they would rise up en masse. They would free unjustly held prisoners, put terror into the hearts of agents of tyranny, maybe even overthrow the tyrant him/herself. (As the '90s went on, the hypothetical tyrant was increasingly likely to be portrayed as a woman.) And did they? Did they hell.

There are no martyrs from the RKBA crowd. Their organizations sometimes join in efforts mostly initiated and staffed by others, but apart from objections to a handful of specific proposed restrictions on gun sales and such, one hears of no RKBA leadership on any of the rest. To the contrary, one hears a great deal of cheerleading for warmaking abroad and tyranny at home as long as all the right people get it, and one hears silence. Where are those freed prisoners? Nowhere. Where are those terrified agents? Nowhere. It was all the purest bloviation.

It's really very rare for such ambitious claims about what one will do oneself and what one's allies will do in a moment of profound crisis. But Bush/Cheney gave us all the chance. And all of you going on about how guns keep the republic safe and free are completely full of it. All the things you warned us about came to pass, and where are you? Right here with the bulk of us, and well behind some - there are individual posters here who as single people have done more actual good for American liberty than half the membership of the NRA and such groups.

It's liberal lawyers, academics, journalists, and the like who are actually pressing the government, pretty much, and liberals at large funding them, while conservatives and libertarians (with way, way too few exceptions) either cheer and keep voting for the tyranny or sigh and shake a finger and then keep voting for it. The RKBA claims about guns' role in society are demonstrably false for America at the beginning of the 21st century, and no amount of dithering over 18th century will change that. The Second Amendment as constituted is useless not because of then, but because of now, because of you its champions.

Posted by: Bruce Baugh | June 27, 2008 at 03:44 AM
https://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidia ... dictm.html

Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Posted: 23 Sep 2020, 15:14
by Eric the .5b
Eh, RKBA could certainly check tyranny. Note all the efforts to keep guns out of black peoples' hands—someone in power has frequently been afraid. More cynically, see all the paranoia on the left about militias, even to this day.

It's just that thanks to sports bar branding, where Blues want to ban guns and Reds promise to protect them, RKBA is completely the fully-owned province of Red chucklefucks.

Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Posted: 23 Sep 2020, 15:48
by Aresen
I went looking for the story on various websites. Everything seems to be spun off the Atlantic story, so I am not entirely convinced of the truthiness, though the administration response seems rather evasive.

For amusement, I looked at the comments on Breitbart and Raw Story. It is funny how the respective comments sections are mirror images.

Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Posted: 23 Sep 2020, 16:51
by thoreau
Eric the .5b wrote: 23 Sep 2020, 15:14 Eh, RKBA could certainly check tyranny. Note all the efforts to keep guns out of black peoples' hands—someone in power has frequently been afraid. More cynically, see all the paranoia on the left about militias, even to this day.
I don't disagree with you, but both those examples are at least as much about protecting people who are not the state but are friendly to it, or the relationship between a state faction and the private citizens with guns.

Black people are disarmed at least as much to protect white neighborhoods as white police stations. And cops are known to carry guns to plant on black suspects; the only thing they fear more than a live black man with a gun is a dead black man without one.

The fear of militias is less that guys in husky-size camouflage will do significant damage to the state and more that they'll become martyrs and energize the right. Martyrdom is certainly part of the revolutionary's arsenal, but it can blow up in their face at least as much as it can damage the state. If they provoke the state into an overreaction that generates sympathy, the militias win. If they come across looking like thugs shooting at The Thin Blue Line then they can lose their friends in the state.

tl;dr Armed radicals are most politically effective when they have friends in the state, and are most oppressed when they are seen as a threat to the state and the community alike.

Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Posted: 23 Sep 2020, 17:44
by Eric the .5b
thoreau wrote: 23 Sep 2020, 16:51The fear of militias is less that guys in husky-size camouflage will do significant damage to the state and more that they'll become martyrs and energize the right.
There are definitely plenty of people on the left who think militias are going to jump out of nowhere and hunt them down. I remember when pictures of the cops in Ferguson were blowing up, I encountered lefties going on about how they wouldn't even think a bunch of heavyset men in tactical-gear were cops, but would expect them to be militia members on the attack.

Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Posted: 23 Sep 2020, 18:13
by thoreau
That's fair. Many on the left definitely view the militias in the same way that a lot of white people view black people with guns (or without guns, for that matter). But this doesn't really support a narrative of militias' guns checking tyranny. Lefty fear of militia violence leads to calls for state intervention.

If the state refuses to intervene it's less for fear of an ass-kicking (I think they'd happily use those armored SWAT vehicles and whatnot against militias) and more for fear of a political response. The right flank of the body politic will side with martyred militias.

Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Posted: 23 Sep 2020, 19:37
by Eric the .5b
thoreau wrote: 23 Sep 2020, 18:13That's fair. Many on the left definitely view the militias in the same way that a lot of white people view black people with guns (or without guns, for that matter). But this doesn't really support a narrative of militias' guns checking tyranny.
It supports the narrative that people in power consider them a threat. In this case, the left side of power. And I don't think you can disentangle black-people-with-guns as a threat for the right side.

You have to be able to threaten power in order to be a check on it. And be willing to do so, as the gun guys have shown they're not remotely interested in. They'd rather roam around in cammies and point guns at protestors.

Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Posted: 23 Sep 2020, 19:54
by thoreau
Well, they're willing to show up to state capitols and point guns...to threaten a Blue governor.

That's the thing. The guys with guns have shown themselves to be completely and utterly intertwined with one side of power. What I go back and forth on is whether they're Team Red's dobermans, i.e. something that Team Red might use to hurt people if shit goes down, or Team Red's chihuahuas in purses, i.e. something that growls while being shown off. I don't really want to find out the hard way, but my gut tells me that if shit goes down these guys will do something terrible, the sensible ones will then lie low, and the ones who continue to show themselves will be crushed. The greatest damage they do will be the damage that they provoke, not the campaign that they carry forward.

I hope we don't find out the hard way.

In the meantime, whether they're dobermans or chihuahuas, much like spoiled dogs they get better food, shelter, and medicine than some of the people that police can fuck with at will. The whole thing is just sickening. A gun should not be a protest accouterments in a liberal republic.

Re: Calling 2020 for Entropy

Posted: 23 Sep 2020, 20:22
by Eric the .5b
thoreau wrote: 23 Sep 2020, 19:54The guys with guns have shown themselves to be completely and utterly intertwined with one side of power. What I go back and forth on is whether they're Team Red's dobermans, i.e. something that Team Red might use to hurt people if shit goes down, or Team Red's chihuahuas in purses, i.e. something that growls while being shown off.
If everything goes bad, I'm sure they'll be like the armed thugs going around intimidating the opposition in Venezuela.