Star Trek Wankery

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Eric the .5b
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by Eric the .5b »

Bad pop psychology hit a lot of TV science fiction.
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Jennifer
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by Jennifer »

Random Comic Book Guy-style nitpick: IIRC, there is already an in-universe explanation for why so many aliens on different planets are humanoids capable of reproducing together -- some ancient alien race "seeded" the planets or something -- but nobody has ever commented on how apparently, ALL inhabited planets have the exact same mass/gravity as earth: nobody ever says things like "Going to Romulus is exhausting because your effective body weight instantly increases by 50 percent" or "Cardassia is fun to visit because the gravity is so slight, you can safely jump (and fall) three times higher than you could on Earth."
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lunchstealer
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by lunchstealer »

Jennifer wrote: 04 Apr 2021, 11:32 Random Comic Book Guy-style nitpick: IIRC, there is already an in-universe explanation for why so many aliens on different planets are humanoids capable of reproducing together -- some ancient alien race "seeded" the planets or something -- but nobody has ever commented on how apparently, ALL inhabited planets have the exact same mass/gravity as earth: nobody ever says things like "Going to Romulus is exhausting because your effective body weight instantly increases by 50 percent" or "Cardassia is fun to visit because the gravity is so slight, you can safely jump (and fall) three times higher than you could on Earth."
There's a whole DS9 ep on the premise.
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Jennifer
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by Jennifer »

Good to know; I've only seen a couple DS9s so far (the "episodic" ones; I'm holding off on the more over-arching plot ones until they reach the end of the series and go back to season one.)
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by Eric the .5b »

There are occasional references to different gravity levels (it would explain Vulcans--and probably did in some book), but it's a PITA to depict low gravity on TV, and high gravity without VFX effort to depict things falling faster* is just characters complaining about high gravity.





*. Which is an underused bit. Have someone drop something and it hits the ground unexpectedly fast and hard. Have a character trip and fall, and they too hit the ground faster and harder than reasonable on Earth.
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dbcooper
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

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Hugh Akston
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by Hugh Akston »

The Wire is one of the best DS9 episodes
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Jennifer
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by Jennifer »

I've only seen a handful of DS9 episodes so far, but have already noticed one obvious difference: on DS9, there's been mention that at least some of the available holodeck programs are very very sexy (presumably downright pornographic, though they couldn't say that on syndicated TV in the 90s). I don't know if that's just because the DS9 writers went into it with the overall idea "This Star Trek is 'grittier' than the previous two," or if it's a matter of Federation policy regarding use of military-issue holodecks, vs. Quark's running them for profit. I certainly don't recall mention of the Enterprise holodecks having any sort of self-cleaning mechanisms.
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by Eric the .5b »

Jennifer wrote: 09 Apr 2021, 01:54I've only seen a handful of DS9 episodes so far, but have already noticed one obvious difference: on DS9, there's been mention that at least some of the available holodeck programs are very very sexy (presumably downright pornographic, though they couldn't say that on syndicated TV in the 90s). I don't know if that's just because the DS9 writers went into it with the overall idea "This Star Trek is 'grittier' than the previous two," or if it's a matter of Federation policy regarding use of military-issue holodecks, vs. Quark's running them for profit. I certainly don't recall mention of the Enterprise holodecks having any sort of self-cleaning mechanisms.
"Pornographic" to "interactively sexual", sure. On the other hand, I think that was part of the idea all along:



A lot of "I'll be in my bunk" energy there.
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dbcooper
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

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Hugh Akston wrote: 09 Apr 2021, 01:25 The Wire is one of the best DS9 episodes
The end is so good.
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Hugh Akston
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

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dbcooper wrote: 09 Apr 2021, 08:52
Hugh Akston wrote: 09 Apr 2021, 01:25 The Wire is one of the best DS9 episodes
The end is so good.
+1

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Shem
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

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Garak gets all the best lines.

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Jennifer
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by Jennifer »

I wonder what recommendations future child-development experts will make, regarding what minimum age a kid should be allowed onto a holodeck? The single most important lesson young humans need to learn from their parents or caregivers is how to not-die, which is difficult because (except for some apparently innate/instinctive fears, such as darkness, high edges and certain insects and reptilians) kids are born with no idea what is safe and what is dangerous, and in fact will spend the first few years of their lives actively trying to kill themselves, which is why expectant parents must "childproof" their homes (among other things). But on a holodeck with full safety protocols, everything is safe and not-dangerous (except for the holodeck's weekly malfunction for plot purposes); if a kid is too young to even understand things like "Do NOT stick a fork into the electrical outlet, and keep your fingers out of it too," they definitely can't understand "The rules in the holodeck are completely different from the rules in the real world."

Pre-covid, I remember seeing some cute little video snippet someone put online: a toddler who apparently had a lot of experience with tablets was given a glossy magazine, and kept touching the magazine expecting the image to change, and was obviously unable to understand why THIS picture didn't behave like a picture on a tablet. A kid who can't even tell the difference between an electronic tablet and a glossy paper magazine definitely can't be expected to grok the difference between holodecks and reality.
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dbcooper
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

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Re: Star Trek Wankery

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Slip inside a sleeping bag.
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lshap
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by lshap »

I have a friend who is, amazingly, a ST neophyte. He just asked for advice on "the best Star Trek story arc". He plans to skip around and just follow one story.

My first answers: Borg or Q.
No, wait, you know nothing of ST? Then follow Spock's story.

Or...better yet, let me ask my expert crew! What say y'all?
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Warren
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

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lshap wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 21:19 I have a friend who is, amazingly, a ST neophyte. He just asked for advice on "the best Star Trek story arc". He plans to skip around and just follow one story.

My first answers: Borg or Q.
No, wait, you know nothing of ST? Then follow Spock's story.

Or...better yet, let me ask my expert crew! What say y'all?
Spock is certainly the richest, spanning TOS, TNG, DS9, and some movies. That said, you'd need to curate the list. Not every Spock centered story is worth watching (looking at you Star Trek V: The Final Frontier) and I'd leave NuTrek off altogether.

Q is the most fun. Lwaxana is fun too, though her arc is polluted with Deanna. Oh! Depending on how you define "story arc", you could do Majel's arc; First Officer in The Cage, Nurse Chapel in TOS, Lwaxana in TNG and DS9, not to mention The Computer Voice and Lt. M'Ress from TAS.

Tom Paris is my pic as best Trek character arc as he's one of the few that has one. Though his is polluted with B'Elanna.

The Borg has some of the best stuff and spans Series' and movies. Best of Both Worlds comes up early and everything that follows suffers by comparison. Also, kinda need to be familiar with Cpt. Jean-Luc Picard and his crew.

I'm tempted to say "Voyager's quest to return to the Alpha Quadrant" and just have him watch all of VOY.

I'd be willing to binge an O'Brien list though it be polluted with Keiko.

A Data arc would also be a strong contender.

I'd put a hard no on a Worf arc. The Deanna romance is dumb, and everything with Alexander is awful.

ETA
7of9's learning to be an individual arc is probably the best in all of Trek (and perhaps the most Trekesque), but I don't know if you can strip it out. Certainly a deep understanding of the Borg is prerequisite.
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Hugh Akston
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by Hugh Akston »

The best character arc is Nog in DS9.

The relevant episodes are:
  1. 1x1 Emissary
  2. 1x4 A Man Alone
  3. 1x11 the Nagus
  4. 1x15 Progress
  5. 2x26 The Jem'Hadar
  6. 3x13 Life Support
  7. 3x14 Heart of Stone
  8. 3x25 Facets
  9. 4x08 Little Green Men
  10. 4x11 Homefront
  11. 4x12 Paradise Lost
  12. 5x09 The Ascent
  13. 5x23 Blaze of Glory
  14. 5x25 Empok Nor
  15. 5x25 In the Cards
  16. 5x26 Call to Arms
  17. 6x02 Rocks and Shoals
  18. 6x10 The Magnificent Ferengi
  19. 6x22 Valiant
  20. 7x06 Treachery, Faith, and the Great River
  21. 7x08 The Siege of AR-558
  22. 7x10 It's Only a Paper Moon
  23. 7x15 Badda-Bing Badda-Bang
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lunchstealer
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by lunchstealer »

The Borg and Q, because both start off cheesey and kind of overdone, and finish up strong on VOY.
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Warren
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

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Hugh Akston wrote: 17 Apr 2021, 12:00 The best character arc is Nog in DS9.

The relevant episodes are:
  1. 1x1 Emissary
  2. 1x4 A Man Alone
  3. 1x11 the Nagus
  4. 1x15 Progress
  5. 2x26 The Jem'Hadar
  6. 3x13 Life Support
  7. 3x14 Heart of Stone
  8. 3x25 Facets
  9. 4x08 Little Green Men
  10. 4x11 Homefront
  11. 4x12 Paradise Lost
  12. 5x09 The Ascent
  13. 5x23 Blaze of Glory
  14. 5x25 Empok Nor
  15. 5x25 In the Cards
  16. 5x26 Call to Arms
  17. 6x02 Rocks and Shoals
  18. 6x10 The Magnificent Ferengi
  19. 6x22 Valiant
  20. 7x06 Treachery, Faith, and the Great River
  21. 7x08 The Siege of AR-558
  22. 7x10 It's Only a Paper Moon
  23. 7x15 Badda-Bing Badda-Bang
Well played Duckie
I'd thought of "Ferengi" moving from TNG to Quark. But there's no arc there. Quark on his own doesn't go very far. But I forgot about Nog.
I'll have to give your list a more thorough scan. Did you curate it yourself?

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Hugh Akston
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by Hugh Akston »

Warren wrote: 17 Apr 2021, 14:07 Did you curate it yourself?
I did.

The problem with asking about story arcs is that's not really how Star Trek works. There's no overall plan or endgame for the Klingons or the Borg. They are adapted to the needs of the story, and the tastes of the writers. The closest thing Trek has to a story arc is the Dominion War, which takes 100+ episodes over five season to play out, and even that ends on a somewhat ambiguous note. Even the last nine episodes, which are heavily serialized, require a lot of context to know who these characters are and what they mean.
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by Eric the .5b »

Hugh Akston wrote: 17 Apr 2021, 16:56
Warren wrote: 17 Apr 2021, 14:07 Did you curate it yourself?
I did.

The problem with asking about story arcs is that's not really how Star Trek works. There's no overall plan or endgame for the Klingons or the Borg. They are adapted to the needs of the story, and the tastes of the writers. The closest thing Trek has to a story arc is the Dominion War, which takes 100+ episodes over five season to play out, and even that ends on a somewhat ambiguous note. Even the last nine episodes, which are heavily serialized, require a lot of context to know who these characters are and what they mean.
Agreed.

It's even worse with TOS because non-soap TV was even more episodic back then.

(But then, having been out of touch with TV for some years, everything seems to have arcs or serial plots, nowadays. American TV writing has fundamentally shifted.)
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

Cyrano Jones. Two episodes and you're done, plus you've watched one of the best known and best loved episodes of all the ST output.
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

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D.A. Ridgely wrote: 17 Apr 2021, 19:26 Cyrano Jones. Two episodes and you're done, plus you've watched one of the best known and best loved episodes of all the ST output.
Three episodes. You're forgetting, or more likely (for a poser like you), unaware of, TAS: More Tribbles, More Troubles.

For my money, if you want a guest character, I'd go with Harcourt Fenton Mudd.
Ignoring Discovery natch.
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Hugh Akston
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by Hugh Akston »

Warren wrote: 17 Apr 2021, 20:43
D.A. Ridgely wrote: 17 Apr 2021, 19:26 Cyrano Jones. Two episodes and you're done, plus you've watched one of the best known and best loved episodes of all the ST output.
Three episodes. You're forgetting, or more likely (for a poser like you), unaware of, TAS: More Tribbles, More Troubles.

For my money, if you want a guest character, I'd go with Harcourt Fenton Mudd.
Ignoring Discovery natch.
I thought Rainn Wilson was really good as Harry Mudd.
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